Comments on: Government redistribution of wealth: Is it right? http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/ Christian Personal Finance - Financial help blog, debt help and other financial resources Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:22:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Wade http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-125975 Wade Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:20:14 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-125975 they are not taking in a sence of stealing and they do not covet they have permission it's called majority vote !!! they are not taking in a sence of stealing and they do not covet they have permission it’s called majority vote !!!

]]> By: Smagistad http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-80216 Smagistad Sat, 13 Nov 2010 04:30:53 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-80216 I believe that much of this discussion misses a key idea when we speak of government having no role, but instead saying that as Christians we must be taking care of the poor through our personal giving. This key idea is: What if there are more people in poverty in the first place because they are victims of an unjust SYSTEM. Much of this discussion basically assumes our economic, political, and social systems are already operating completely in-line with God's plan for creation - as if these are perfect systems. IE - Our job is not to question or change the system, but simply to address it's impact on some poor people who are victims of the system. Do we really believe, in our hearts, that the ever widening gap between the very rich and the poor is evidence of perfect, just system in the eyes of God? We should not be afraid to question our systems. We should not separate our beliefs from our social, political and economic activities. All of it is part of God's creation. I don't think the free market system is good or evil, but I think it has weaknesses and government is the primary mechanism we have to address these weaknesses. Of course we give of our personal wealth to say thanks to God, but there is nothing wrong in my opinion with also advocating for policies that improve the fairness and justice of the system. I believe that much of this discussion misses a key idea when we speak of government having no role, but instead saying that as Christians we must be taking care of the poor through our personal giving. This key idea is: What if there are more people in poverty in the first place because they are victims of an unjust SYSTEM. Much of this discussion basically assumes our economic, political, and social systems are already operating completely in-line with God’s plan for creation – as if these are perfect systems. IE – Our job is not to question or change the system, but simply to address it’s impact on some poor people who are victims of the system. Do we really believe, in our hearts, that the ever widening gap between the very rich and the poor is evidence of perfect, just system in the eyes of God? We should not be afraid to question our systems. We should not separate our beliefs from our social, political and economic activities. All of it is part of God’s creation. I don’t think the free market system is good or evil, but I think it has weaknesses and government is the primary mechanism we have to address these weaknesses. Of course we give of our personal wealth to say thanks to God, but there is nothing wrong in my opinion with also advocating for policies that improve the fairness and justice of the system.

]]> By: rICHARD http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-75956 rICHARD Mon, 01 Nov 2010 02:39:36 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-75956 there are rich people poor people and people for what ever reason truly cant keep a job or they dont have the skill or maybe even the coppacity to even get a skill to earn and decent living to provide even their basic needs.Then u have people who lets say a married couple the husaband works but the wife has a disability and she collects disability she worked long enough to get regual sdi security then u take a young person who is disabled has no onee and has not worked long enough to get regular disability so they get ssi the mininum well the lady on regular socail security has a husband and his income her disablity check and could even work enough to make about 1/2 of what she gets on dis she could also get an inheritence and keep the money and still get here disability now the young person who has not worlked enough to get regular dis gets the mininum cant work or they will deduct could not keep an inheritince with out loosing their disablity so they work maybe if they are lucky a few hours a week side jobe under the tABLE NOT TO BE GREEDY OR DISHONEST BUT TO SERVIVE I dont think this is fare.The rich are very lucky no matter how u look at it and I feel they should pay more I also think their will be greed coruption in every thing ffrom welfare to our police fource thats life I think the working poor should be given a chance to go to school to get e skill to make more and also well they are making mininum wage they should be given liie a a person disabled or on welfare medicade tax exement the rules for disablity should be the same for everyone rather if a person has only worked for two years of 20 and they become disabled they might not be able to have a day to day job to support themmselves but I dont think its greedy if they get their check and have nothing left to even save at the end of month and lert them work as much as they can and keep what they are abale to earn to a certain amount then deduct so that can also can have a meaningfull exsistance..And the rich should not be given the brakes and put the burdon on the middle class all I do know is I think some sort of a better system could be developed to make what people will do any way out of survival but make it legal economicly speaking..I think a persons social behavour speaks for its self I mean if a person claims they are disabled and cant work but they are running all over with their friends can drink smoke and have a jolly grand time then come one but if a person is claming that and they stay home al the time and just dont seem to be having a life then they probely stay hoje because sosmething is wrong their for why put another burdon on them and give only enough money to braly get by mayube they could do something a few days a month as when your on a 674 a month income with rental assistance rent is $169 utility $88 a month phone and cable $100 and personal househole items and food if they need a car payment 125 plus 75 insurance total 577 that leaves 100 whcih buys nothing now that if have rental substy if not where could one live on 674 another question.Some people really in america suffer because of no funds every day horibly. there are rich people poor people and people for what ever reason truly cant keep a job or they dont have the skill or maybe even the coppacity to even get a skill to earn and decent living to provide even their basic needs.Then u have people who lets say a married couple the husaband works but the wife has a disability and she collects disability she worked long enough to get regual sdi security then u take a young person who is disabled has no onee and has not worked long enough to get regular disability so they get ssi the mininum well the lady on regular socail security has a husband and his income her disablity check and could even work enough to make about 1/2 of what she gets on dis she could also get an inheritence and keep the money and still get here disability now the young person who has not worlked enough to get regular dis gets the mininum cant work or they will deduct could not keep an inheritince with out loosing their disablity so they work maybe if they are lucky a few hours a week side jobe under the tABLE NOT TO BE GREEDY OR DISHONEST BUT TO SERVIVE I dont think this is fare.The rich are very lucky no matter how u look at it and I feel they should pay more I also think their will be greed coruption in every thing ffrom welfare to our police fource thats life I think the working poor should be given a chance to go to school to get e skill to make more and also well they are making mininum wage they should be given liie a a person disabled or on welfare medicade tax exement the rules for disablity should be the same for everyone rather if a person has only worked for two years of 20 and they become disabled they might not be able to have a day to day job to support themmselves but I dont think its greedy if they get their check and have nothing left to even save at the end of month and lert them work as much as they can and keep what they are abale to earn to a certain amount then deduct so that can also can have a meaningfull exsistance..And the rich should not be given the brakes and put the burdon on the middle class all I do know is I think some sort of a better system could be developed to make what people will do any way out of survival but make it legal economicly speaking..I think a persons social behavour speaks for its self I mean if a person claims they are disabled and cant work but they are running all over with their friends can drink smoke and have a jolly grand time then come one but if a person is claming that and they stay home al the time and just dont seem to be having a life then they probely stay hoje because sosmething is wrong their for why put another burdon on them and give only enough money to braly get by mayube they could do something a few days a month as when your on a 674 a month income with rental assistance rent is $169 utility $88 a month phone and cable $100 and personal househole items and food if they need a car payment 125 plus 75 insurance total 577 that leaves 100 whcih buys nothing now that if have rental substy if not where could one live on 674 another question.Some people really in america suffer because of no funds every day horibly.

]]> By: Tharos http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-73617 Tharos Sun, 24 Oct 2010 21:27:02 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-73617 There are many Biblical examples where God directs us to give to the poor either directly or via the Church. There is no Biblical example where God directs us to give money to government to give to the poor. God presents us with three general ways in the Bible to take care of the poor and needy: 1) through the family, 2) through the church, and 3) through individual charity. The applicable passages for these three ways are Deut. 14:28, 29, Numbers 18:24, Matthew 6:1-4 and 1 Timothy 5:3-16. Government's role is to ensure the poor are judged fairly in the courts. The first duty of a judge is to execute absolute justice, showing the same impartiality to rich and poor, to Jew and foreigner. He is forbidden to accept bribes or to wrest the judgment of the poor (Exodus 23:6-8 Deuteronomy 16:19). He must not let himself be swayed by popular opinion, or unduly favor the poor (Exodus 23:2, 3). There are many Biblical examples where God directs us to give to the poor either directly or via the Church. There is no Biblical example where God directs us to give money to government to give to the poor. God presents us with three general ways in the Bible to take care of the poor and needy: 1) through the family, 2) through the church, and 3) through individual charity. The applicable passages for these three ways are Deut. 14:28, 29, Numbers 18:24, Matthew 6:1-4 and 1 Timothy 5:3-16. Government’s role is to ensure the poor are judged fairly in the courts. The first duty of a judge is to execute absolute justice, showing the same impartiality to rich and poor, to Jew and foreigner. He is forbidden to accept bribes or to wrest the judgment of the poor (Exodus 23:6-8 Deuteronomy 16:19). He must not let himself be swayed by popular opinion, or unduly favor the poor (Exodus 23:2, 3).

]]> By: Joseph Dooley http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-71484 Joseph Dooley Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:03:13 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-71484 On a theistic construction of morality—for example, Judaism or Christianity—redistributive schemes would be rejected if God issued an injunction against it. In Leviticus chapter 19, among various laws relayed from God through Moses, there is verse 15: “Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly” (New Living Translation). This does not conflict with admonishments elsewhere in the Bible to tithe and give charity. The prominent 11th century Torah scholar Shlomo Yitzchaki wrote of this verse: “Do not say that since the wealthy man is obligated to help the poor one, it is proper for a judge to rule in favor of the poor litigant so that he will be supported in dignity. The Torah insists that justice be rendered honestly; charity may not interfere with it.” What Leviticus 19.15 addresses then is the impartiality of the law to people’s wealth and status. It asserts, in part, that it is wrong to manipulate the law in favor of the poor simply because they are poor. Thus redistributive justice, a twist on true justice, is forbidden to those who believe in the primacy of the Torah. On a theistic construction of morality—for example, Judaism or Christianity—redistributive schemes would be rejected if God issued an injunction against it. In Leviticus chapter 19, among various laws relayed from God through Moses, there is verse 15: “Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly” (New Living Translation).

This does not conflict with admonishments elsewhere in the Bible to tithe and give charity. The prominent 11th century Torah scholar Shlomo Yitzchaki wrote of this verse: “Do not say that since the wealthy man is obligated to help the poor one, it is proper for a judge to rule in favor of the poor litigant so that he will be supported in dignity. The Torah insists that justice be rendered honestly; charity may not interfere with it.”

What Leviticus 19.15 addresses then is the impartiality of the law to people’s wealth and status. It asserts, in part, that it is wrong to manipulate the law in favor of the poor simply because they are poor. Thus redistributive justice, a twist on true justice, is forbidden to those who believe in the primacy of the Torah.

]]> By: Carol Ann http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-64113 Carol Ann Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:13:06 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-64113 Loved the comment from Miiko and the web site to go and read Davy Crockett's speech to the House of Representatives. I loved it so much I emailed it to my state senator and representative. Now it's their responsibilty to read it. Loved the comment from Miiko and the web site to go and read
Davy Crockett’s speech to the House of Representatives. I loved it
so much I emailed it to my state senator and representative. Now
it’s their responsibilty to read it.

]]> By: al http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-57182 al Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:43:13 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-57182 A reading of some of the framers letters show that many were in favor of an estate tax (which republicans call the death tax now) and a progressive income tax. Both ideas can be attributed to Thomas Paine or Jefferson. Madison and Jefferson were especially concerned about the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few individuals as it would jeopardize our democracy. Madison also claimed that of war, debt, or taxes war is the greatest evil of democracy as it leads to the imposition of both debt and taxes. (The US has been in some kind of war nearly nonstop for the last 40 years even w/ Eisenhowers admonishment to fear an industrial corporate takeover.) One of the primary problems our democracy faced early on was the funding of the Revolutionary War and the huge debt incurred...the framers had first hand evidence of this. Now our democracy has slowly eroded into a corpratocracy (essentially national socialism).....we are being enslaved by a slow moving coup de etat with the expressed purpose of enriching only the corporate elite. Now the top 1% own 90% of the wealth of the nation and control 94% of all liquid assets. This is in stark contrast to the 70s when the wealthiest 1% owned 60%. Our middle class is disappearing! Since Reagan we have seen policy after policy systematically enacted to decimate the middle class and extract wealth and transform us into a 3rd world state of uninformed consuming idiots. Our nation was created for the people by the people of the people NOT for the rich by the rich of the rich. To believe otherwise is UNAMERICAN! A reading of some of the framers letters show that many were in favor of an estate tax (which republicans call the death tax now) and a progressive income tax. Both ideas can be attributed to Thomas Paine or Jefferson. Madison and Jefferson were especially concerned about the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few individuals as it would jeopardize our democracy. Madison also claimed that of war, debt, or taxes war is the greatest evil of democracy as it leads to the imposition of both debt and taxes. (The US has been in some kind of war nearly nonstop for the last 40 years even w/ Eisenhowers admonishment to fear an industrial corporate takeover.) One of the primary problems our democracy faced early on was the funding of the Revolutionary War and the huge debt incurred…the framers had first hand evidence of this. Now our democracy has slowly eroded into a corpratocracy (essentially national socialism)…..we are being enslaved by a slow moving coup de etat with the expressed purpose of enriching only the corporate elite. Now the top 1% own 90% of the wealth of the nation and control 94% of all liquid assets. This is in stark contrast to the 70s when the wealthiest 1% owned 60%. Our middle class is disappearing! Since Reagan we have seen policy after policy systematically enacted to decimate the middle class and extract wealth and transform us into a 3rd world state of uninformed consuming idiots. Our nation was created for the people by the people of the people NOT for the rich by the rich of the rich. To believe otherwise is UNAMERICAN!

]]> By: Daniel Gross http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-57096 Daniel Gross Sun, 01 Aug 2010 06:05:02 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-57096 We are all looking at the problem from the wrong angle. We are the creators of our world, and it begins to change as soon as one person makes the switch and begins putting off the things of this world. Money is wrong because everyone who relies on it ends up loving it, and the love of money is wrong. Greed is the reason for a society based on the monetary system. We must ghave the rich and the poor, when it says clearly in your bible none had too much and none had too little, but all had just the right amount required. We must move toward a moneyless society where all give freely, and all are provided their needs and their wants freely. Those who learn to put off the things of this world can live in a society like this, and would not take advantage of it. As it is in our world today that has so many Churches supposing to be of God, and yet there are enough churches in the world to feed all of the world. The Catholic We are all looking at the problem from the wrong angle. We are the creators of our world, and it begins to change as soon as one person makes the switch and begins putting off the things of this world. Money is wrong because everyone who relies on it ends up loving it, and the love of money is wrong. Greed is the reason for a society based on the monetary system. We must ghave the rich and the poor, when it says clearly in your bible none had too much and none had too little, but all had just the right amount required. We must move toward a moneyless society where all give freely, and all are provided their needs and their wants freely. Those who learn to put off the things of this world can live in a society like this, and would not take advantage of it. As it is in our world today that has so many Churches supposing to be of God, and yet there are enough churches in the world to feed all of the world. The Catholic

]]> By: Miiko http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-52263 Miiko Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:33:59 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-52263 Hi Bob, Thought I could throw in this speech by David Crockett on "Not Yours to Give." Good reading. http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/greatmen/crockett/crocket2.htm Hi Bob,

Thought I could throw in this speech by David Crockett on “Not Yours to Give.” Good reading.

http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/greatmen/crockett/crocket2.htm

]]> By: joe http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/comment-page-1/#comment-52244 joe Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:08:11 +0000 http://christianpf.com/government-redistribution-of-wealth/#comment-52244 the answer is simple is starts with us as individuals, not the government. We must restore faith and all the virtues that made this a great country, things like honesty , good morals, decency , charity.and so on. We must demand these things from our churches and our leaders and when these changes within our society become restored we can once again become a proud nation. the answer is simple is starts with us as individuals, not the government. We must restore faith and all the virtues that made this a great country, things like honesty , good morals, decency , charity.and so on. We must demand these things from our churches and our leaders and when these changes within our society become restored we can once again become a proud nation.

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