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	<title>Comments on: Prosperity Gospel, Poverty Gospel, and the Gospel</title>
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	<description>Christian Personal Finance - Financial help blog, debt help and other financial resources</description>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-105257</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have been praying for prosperity for the city I live in according to Jeremiah 29:7. The word PROSPER as I have come to understand it actually means 

to be used for its intended purpose. 

That makes a whole new spin on things. Try praying,&#039; Lord, may my finances be used for their intended purpose.&#039; Prosperity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been praying for prosperity for the city I live in according to Jeremiah 29:7. The word PROSPER as I have come to understand it actually means </p>
<p>to be used for its intended purpose. </p>
<p>That makes a whole new spin on things. Try praying,&#8217; Lord, may my finances be used for their intended purpose.&#8217; Prosperity.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas TheBudgetSoftware.com</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-19159</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas TheBudgetSoftware.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-19159</guid>
		<description>This really was a great post. Thank you for sharing truth.
Some of the thoughts that came up as I was reading the post, but more so in reading the comments, is what I&#039;ve found in scripture and in my pursuit of God&#039;s heart on the subject.
This is an area that I have wrestled with a lot for the simple fact that I believe God has given me a gift in the area of business, even at 25. But it is a talent that I have, whereas my heart of hearts is just to serve Him with my whole being. Even if that means living in a grass hut ministering to unreached people groups.

In Proverbs 30 the writer asks two things of God; 
Pro 30:7  Two things I ask of you;
 deny them not to me before I die:
Pro 30:8  Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
 give me neither poverty nor riches;
 feed me with the food that is needful for me,
Pro 30:9  lest I be full and deny you
 and say,  &quot;Who is the LORD?&quot;
 or lest I be poor and steal
 and profane the name of my God.

And that is the conclusion that I have come to; that even if He were to bless my businesses with an abundance, I have decided in my heart that I will keep what is needful for me and no more. Like John Wesley I have set a salary cap for myself, and the rest will go to whatever is on His heart; the widows and the orphans (James 1:27), the poor (all throughout scripture), the advancing of His Kingdom, etc..

I think it&#039;s important to note this story that Yeshua told His disciples;
Mar 12:42  And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins,  which make a penny.
Mar 12:43  And he called his disciples to him and said to them,   &quot;Truly,  I say to you,  this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box.
Mar 12:44  For they all contributed out of their abundance,  but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had,  all she had to live on.&quot;

The abundance is never for us, read Luke 12:13-20 to see what God&#039;s heart is for our abundance. If we don&#039;t know when our life will be demanded of us, why would we want to be caught with an abundance in storehouses (banks) when there are poor and needy among us. God knows our needs and provides, so we can provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This really was a great post. Thank you for sharing truth.<br />
Some of the thoughts that came up as I was reading the post, but more so in reading the comments, is what I&#8217;ve found in scripture and in my pursuit of God&#8217;s heart on the subject.<br />
This is an area that I have wrestled with a lot for the simple fact that I believe God has given me a gift in the area of business, even at 25. But it is a talent that I have, whereas my heart of hearts is just to serve Him with my whole being. Even if that means living in a grass hut ministering to unreached people groups.</p>
<p>In Proverbs 30 the writer asks two things of God;<br />
Pro 30:7  Two things I ask of you;<br />
 deny them not to me before I die:<br />
Pro 30:8  Remove far from me falsehood and lying;<br />
 give me neither poverty nor riches;<br />
 feed me with the food that is needful for me,<br />
Pro 30:9  lest I be full and deny you<br />
 and say,  &#8220;Who is the LORD?&#8221;<br />
 or lest I be poor and steal<br />
 and profane the name of my God.</p>
<p>And that is the conclusion that I have come to; that even if He were to bless my businesses with an abundance, I have decided in my heart that I will keep what is needful for me and no more. Like John Wesley I have set a salary cap for myself, and the rest will go to whatever is on His heart; the widows and the orphans (James 1:27), the poor (all throughout scripture), the advancing of His Kingdom, etc..</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s important to note this story that Yeshua told His disciples;<br />
Mar 12:42  And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins,  which make a penny.<br />
Mar 12:43  And he called his disciples to him and said to them,   &#8220;Truly,  I say to you,  this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box.<br />
Mar 12:44  For they all contributed out of their abundance,  but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had,  all she had to live on.&#8221;</p>
<p>The abundance is never for us, read Luke 12:13-20 to see what God&#8217;s heart is for our abundance. If we don&#8217;t know when our life will be demanded of us, why would we want to be caught with an abundance in storehouses (banks) when there are poor and needy among us. God knows our needs and provides, so we can provide.</p>
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		<title>By: Cork Hutson</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18570</link>
		<dc:creator>Cork Hutson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18570</guid>
		<description>Bob,

Right on money, so to speak :), Brother! This is something that I have  (and probably most Christians) struggled with most of my Christian life (28 years).  It has only been for the past 5 or six years that I have begun to understand that we in the pew have been called to support those in the pulpit.   We cannot do that if we are conformed to the world of debt, mediocre jobs (that we hate), fear of success, and a fatalistic attitude!  

Like you, I believe that we in the pew have a God-mandated responsibility to live out Galatians 6:10, &quot;As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially those who are of the household of faith.&quot;  

I have begun studying what the Bible says about all this and journaling it in my blog, http://noble-success.com.  Thanks to your great article on blogging, I will be spending quite a few hours now on optimizing the blog to make it more useful to others.  

We have a lot of common thought, my friend (as I am sure many do).  I look forward to becoming more familiar with your work and ways to mutually re-introduce and promote the Biblical teachings of good stewardship to a Church which has been conformed rather than transformed (Romans 12:2)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>Right on money, so to speak <img src='http://christianpf.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> , Brother! This is something that I have  (and probably most Christians) struggled with most of my Christian life (28 years).  It has only been for the past 5 or six years that I have begun to understand that we in the pew have been called to support those in the pulpit.   We cannot do that if we are conformed to the world of debt, mediocre jobs (that we hate), fear of success, and a fatalistic attitude!  </p>
<p>Like you, I believe that we in the pew have a God-mandated responsibility to live out Galatians 6:10, &#8220;As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially those who are of the household of faith.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I have begun studying what the Bible says about all this and journaling it in my blog, <a href="http://noble-success.com" rel="nofollow">http://noble-success.com</a>.  Thanks to your great article on blogging, I will be spending quite a few hours now on optimizing the blog to make it more useful to others.  </p>
<p>We have a lot of common thought, my friend (as I am sure many do).  I look forward to becoming more familiar with your work and ways to mutually re-introduce and promote the Biblical teachings of good stewardship to a Church which has been conformed rather than transformed (Romans 12:2)</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew @ LifeOfAnInvestor.com</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18499</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew @ LifeOfAnInvestor.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18499</guid>
		<description>I have seen the global rich list before, but seeing again that I&#039;m in the top 1% of the world&#039;s wealth is humbling.  We can come up with all the excuses in the world for why that doesn&#039;t matter (higher standard of living, taxes, etc.), but it definitely does.  We are blessed beyond imagination and we need to ask ourselves why God chose to bless us in this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen the global rich list before, but seeing again that I&#8217;m in the top 1% of the world&#8217;s wealth is humbling.  We can come up with all the excuses in the world for why that doesn&#8217;t matter (higher standard of living, taxes, etc.), but it definitely does.  We are blessed beyond imagination and we need to ask ourselves why God chose to bless us in this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Mwangi</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18475</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Mwangi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 16:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18475</guid>
		<description>Good Post Bob! and very interesting comments, 
I think the truth of all this is found in the Bible. Some preachers have misrepresented the scriptures or preached it for their own gain, but that does not negate the truth of the word of God.  The &#039;Happy rock&#039; above pointed one important thing that i think is my take for this article..... Where your treasure is there your heart will also be according to Mathew 6:21.

I want to be a good steward as Bob pointed out, what i have does not belong to me  i am just &quot;holding it for the owner&quot; but i can use it as he pleases.

joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Post Bob! and very interesting comments,<br />
I think the truth of all this is found in the Bible. Some preachers have misrepresented the scriptures or preached it for their own gain, but that does not negate the truth of the word of God.  The &#8216;Happy rock&#8217; above pointed one important thing that i think is my take for this article&#8230;.. Where your treasure is there your heart will also be according to Mathew 6:21.</p>
<p>I want to be a good steward as Bob pointed out, what i have does not belong to me  i am just &#8220;holding it for the owner&#8221; but i can use it as he pleases.</p>
<p>joe</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18436</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18436</guid>
		<description>Liz--Perhaps the biggest problem with the idea that prosperity = God&#039;s blessing, is that there&#039;s an implication for the inverse--what does that mean for the poor?  Does it mean they&#039;re cursed???  We know that can&#039;t be true and it&#039;s completely counter to the Gospel.  It&#039;s an example of how we twist scripture to wrap neatly around our lives.

RE: tithing, there&#039;s a counter opinion on it in Pagan Christianity (George Barna and Frank Viola) that I tend to agree with.  They maintain that the tithe is an OT directive that wasn&#039;t meant for Christians.  Plus Paul gave us a less specific guideline for giving in 2 Cor 9:7 (&quot;Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.&quot;).

I think tithing is a good thing that God looks favorably on, but in some churches and sects there&#039;s a tendancy to be compulsive about the it, with a backdoor hint that it&#039;s foundational to our salvation.  I think people start feeling guilty about not doing it, as though they aren&#039;t walking with the Lord as a result.  I&#039;ve seen people in tough financial situations who didn&#039;t have the money to do but stressed over it.  I doubt this was ever the intent.

Better to give 2% cheerfully, than to struggle and begrudginly cough up 10% as though we&#039;re paying some sort of faith tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liz&#8211;Perhaps the biggest problem with the idea that prosperity = God&#8217;s blessing, is that there&#8217;s an implication for the inverse&#8211;what does that mean for the poor?  Does it mean they&#8217;re cursed???  We know that can&#8217;t be true and it&#8217;s completely counter to the Gospel.  It&#8217;s an example of how we twist scripture to wrap neatly around our lives.</p>
<p>RE: tithing, there&#8217;s a counter opinion on it in Pagan Christianity (George Barna and Frank Viola) that I tend to agree with.  They maintain that the tithe is an OT directive that wasn&#8217;t meant for Christians.  Plus Paul gave us a less specific guideline for giving in 2 Cor 9:7 (&#8220;Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.&#8221;).</p>
<p>I think tithing is a good thing that God looks favorably on, but in some churches and sects there&#8217;s a tendancy to be compulsive about the it, with a backdoor hint that it&#8217;s foundational to our salvation.  I think people start feeling guilty about not doing it, as though they aren&#8217;t walking with the Lord as a result.  I&#8217;ve seen people in tough financial situations who didn&#8217;t have the money to do but stressed over it.  I doubt this was ever the intent.</p>
<p>Better to give 2% cheerfully, than to struggle and begrudginly cough up 10% as though we&#8217;re paying some sort of faith tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18435</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18435</guid>
		<description>I read the article on The Simple Dollar.  He specifically said that people tell him that - because of his success - he must be in God&#039;s blessing.  That is total hogwash.  1 Timothy 6:10 is where it says that the love of money is the root of all evil.  Five verses earlier - 1 Timothy 6:5b and 6 - says - in describing unholy men, &quot;who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.  From such withdraw yourself.  Now godliness with contentment is great gain.&quot;  I think the point of Trent&#039;s article was not on our internal heart attitude toward money BUT on this false teaching.  The true question is not, do we love money? but (as the New Living Translation puts 1 Timothy 6:5) Do we view religion as a way to get rich?  I came out of a church that preached on Malachi 3 every week.  Test Him! Test Him! You can&#039;t outgive God, they would say. If you&#039;re having financial difficulties, tithe and God will bless you, they would preach every week. Give us your money and God will bless you!  This is so wrong.  THAT is teaching that religion is a way to get rich. THAT is the prosperity gospel. THAT is wrong and false. If I&#039;m giving to get, I&#039;m not really giving. I&#039;m not giving to build a church or feed the poor but giving to get the increase. 
Malachi 3 is the Old Testament.  If someone is going to stand on that, are they also going to start offering blood sacrifices again?  Jesus changed EVERYTHING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the article on The Simple Dollar.  He specifically said that people tell him that &#8211; because of his success &#8211; he must be in God&#8217;s blessing.  That is total hogwash.  1 Timothy 6:10 is where it says that the love of money is the root of all evil.  Five verses earlier &#8211; 1 Timothy 6:5b and 6 &#8211; says &#8211; in describing unholy men, &#8220;who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.  From such withdraw yourself.  Now godliness with contentment is great gain.&#8221;  I think the point of Trent&#8217;s article was not on our internal heart attitude toward money BUT on this false teaching.  The true question is not, do we love money? but (as the New Living Translation puts 1 Timothy 6:5) Do we view religion as a way to get rich?  I came out of a church that preached on Malachi 3 every week.  Test Him! Test Him! You can&#8217;t outgive God, they would say. If you&#8217;re having financial difficulties, tithe and God will bless you, they would preach every week. Give us your money and God will bless you!  This is so wrong.  THAT is teaching that religion is a way to get rich. THAT is the prosperity gospel. THAT is wrong and false. If I&#8217;m giving to get, I&#8217;m not really giving. I&#8217;m not giving to build a church or feed the poor but giving to get the increase.<br />
Malachi 3 is the Old Testament.  If someone is going to stand on that, are they also going to start offering blood sacrifices again?  Jesus changed EVERYTHING.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18423</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18423</guid>
		<description>Why does it seem so ingrained that a lot of money = bad? Even though I have heard money itself is not bad there is still a &quot;feeling&quot; that if I have a lot of money I am being greedy. I pray that if God ever brings me to that spot that He will prepare me to be a good steward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does it seem so ingrained that a lot of money = bad? Even though I have heard money itself is not bad there is still a &#8220;feeling&#8221; that if I have a lot of money I am being greedy. I pray that if God ever brings me to that spot that He will prepare me to be a good steward.</p>
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		<title>By: Christmas in Cobden Weekly Roundup</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18411</link>
		<dc:creator>Christmas in Cobden Weekly Roundup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18411</guid>
		<description>[...] supposed to prosper?  If so, within what parameters?  Bob shares some great insights in &#8220;Prosperity Gospel, Poverty Gospel and the Gospel&#8221; at Christian [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] supposed to prosper?  If so, within what parameters?  Bob shares some great insights in &#8220;Prosperity Gospel, Poverty Gospel and the Gospel&#8221; at Christian [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Win $500 in the 2009 Love/Hate Credit Cards Contest &#124; Redeeming Riches</title>
		<link>http://christianpf.com/money-and-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-18351</link>
		<dc:creator>Win $500 in the 2009 Love/Hate Credit Cards Contest &#124; Redeeming Riches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianpf.com/?p=4234#comment-18351</guid>
		<description>[...] over at Christian PF provides a response to Trent&#8217;s post and tackles the issue that the Bible oftentimes talks about God prospering or blessing us.  I think it&#8217;s a good, well-balanced view.  Bob makes the case that when we compare [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] over at Christian PF provides a response to Trent&#8217;s post and tackles the issue that the Bible oftentimes talks about God prospering or blessing us.  I think it&#8217;s a good, well-balanced view.  Bob makes the case that when we compare [...]</p>
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