Primerica – The pros and cons

Considering Primerica?

I have been to quite a few multi-level marketing recruiting meetings over the years. I consider myself to be an open-minded person, so I don’t mind meeting with the recruiters and really learning what the company is all about. It helps that I don’t have much desire to follow the crowd and don’t have a problem saying no or leaving when I realize it is not what I was interested in.

I met with someone from Primerica a few months back, and just got a call from a different recruiter a few days ago. Since they seem to be growing, I figured I would share my thoughts and see what everyone else thinks.

Primerica Pros

I was intrigued by Primerica because, having worked in banking and currently working in the brokerage industry, I understood that they were offering a valuable service to their clients. Primerica is a divison of CITI, one of the largest banks in the world. Citi offers just about every financial product under the sun and they use Primerica as a sales force of their many products.

What I think is brilliant with Primerica is that their goal is to help their customers use their existing income and shift things around freeing up extra cash to fund retirement and other savings goals. In the example they showed (I am not sure if it was the average American’s financial situation) they refinanced the customers mortgage and switched them from a cash value life insurance policy to a term policy freeing up $500 a month. They then take this $500 and show them how to make good use of it by investing in mutual funds for retirement, saving for college, etc…

The reason they can hire anyone is because they have a computer program that does the advising for them. The Primerica rep gives the computer specific information about the customer’s financial situation and it spits out what they call an FNA (Financial Analysis). This analysis shows the rep and the customer how they can save money and what they should put that extra money towards.

I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they encourage their customers to pay their mortgages twice monthly rather than the traditional monthly payment. This results in thousands of dollars of savings over the life of the loan. In addition they sell term life insurance rather than whole life, even though insurance companies make a lot more money off of whole life than they do term. I am not naive to think that they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts (public companies that large typically have one thing on their minds: putting money in the shareholders pockets).

Coincidentally or not, this seems to be somewhat of a win-win. CITI is willing to make a sacrifice and make a little bit less money on a few products in order to free up the client’s money that will likely be spent on other CITI products.

Primerica Cons

  • They are still a  multi-level marketing firm. The problem I find with many MLM’s is that many of them coerce and pressure people to join – personally, nothing turns me off quicker than when I feel like I am being pressured into something.
  • I did not sign up with them so I don’t have a full understanding of how they get paid. My rep said something about there being four ways, but seemed to intentionally keep it vague. From what other Primerica reps have said, most money is made from recruiting people rather than selling products – and it is difficult to make much money if you don’t recruit a bunch of people.
  • The commission payouts are lower than other salespeople in the industry. My assumption is that since they aren’t looking for financial expertise when hiring, they can get away paying lower commissions. Many of the reps hired wouldn’t have the credentials to work many other places in the industry.
  • If you do leave and stay in the industry, they have a non-compete clause for 2 years within a 50 mile radius of your address. If you leave, you must leave behind the clients that you worked so hard to get in the first place. Probably typical in the industry, but something to keep in mind nonetheless.

I am sure there are bunch more pros and cons, but honestly, since I never signed up I don’t know all of the details. I would love to hear your perspective if you heard of them, been recruited by them, worked for them, or currently work for them. I know a lot of people are very passionate about MLMs one way or another, so if you comment please keep it civil.

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  1. I work in the financial services industry as an assistant to a broker. We have transferred quite a few clients in from Primerica. I don’t know much about them, but their mutual funds seem to perform *really* poorly. Just from what I’ve seen from accounts we moved over, I decided I would never open an account at Primerica. On the plus side, when we request accounts moved over, their processing time is faster than most :)
    I had no idea that they made a lot of their money from recruiting – very interesting. Makes you wonder when they find time to take care of their clients.
    Interesting article!

  2. Sounds to me like there isn’t a great business in saving money for people in this way, which kind of makes sense.

  3. @Becky
    Just to clarify (from the little that I know about it) they make a lot of their money by hiring on people below them – they get a cut of whatever they make and on and on… So, it is similar to the normal multi-level marketing programs (hence the name Multi-level)

    So clearly, it is to each reps advantage to have people under him/her who are producing, so they can get that passive income.

  4. IO looked into Primeamerica a few years ago, and what Becky reported about them having mutual funds with comparitively low returns was true then too. It seemed to me at the time that after I sold mutual funds to all of my friends and aquaintences, I was pretty much out of leads.

  5. I currently work for Primerica and here is my opinion:

    Yes it maybe true that at the starting position of Primerica Representative that one’s commission is not that high compared to other financial institutions, but you have to take all things into consideration. My day-job is software engineer thus I have no background or experience in financial services so if I want to go and work for one of these other high paying companies then I have to go back to college and study first. Which will cost over $10K. But the bigger problem is that it will take 2 years to complete doing it full time which means I must give up my day-job and loose another 160K from my salaries.

    The main reason I’m excited about Primerica is that I have the potential to work up to RVP level where I can make 4 times the commissions on personal sales compared to starting position and at RVP level I’m pretty sure I’ll be making more or, at least similar money as these other independent brokers.

    Then there is the overrides you make in Primerica from your down line and with this none of the independents can compete. My RVP income is probably 90% from all overrides and very little from personal sales.

    Now of course someone is going to say few people make it to RVP so lets take worst case scenario where you stay at Rep. level

    1) For a little registration fee of $99 my life license training, exam and insurance is covered for the two years. Obviously the company heavily subsidizes this as the books, trainer, exam and insurance does still cost lots of money, some estimates say around $2000 to $3000.

    2) The amount of information you learn about finances (as ‘n non financial person such as myself) is simply unbelievable. I never had life insurance mainly because a HUGE dislike of insurance companies and all the negative notion about life insurance in general. It was only after my upline did “training” presentation with me that I learned that there is Term insurance which is actually good value for money so I got Primerica insurance. Yes their Term wasn’t the cheapest but it was comparible than most banks but who would I rather do business with. The bank who doesn’t care about me or the person who is willing to come to my home on weekend.

    3) I’m also mutual fund license so I can write my own retirement and education plans on which I’ll earn 2% commission, and I plan to add these commissions to the savings plans. Sure the 10% to 12% is not the best for mutual funds but adding 2% on top of 10% to 12% is still way better than the banks GIC crap on which you get around 3% rate of return. I had GIC before and the bank never even told me about Mutual funds, they only “highly recommended” that I put my money in GIC which gives better rates than their “savings” accounts. Now that I know what Banks do with GIC I’m tolally mad at them for taking advantage of me.

    4) Even if one does not even move up one level you still make good amount of money considering it’s a part time position. For doing a typical life insurance sale you can make around $200 and about $1000 over 10 years setting up retirement and education plans for one family. The paper work for all this takes around 5 hours so that equates to $240 per hour which is 5 times the amount I’m earning in my day-job. So even at starting position this is good paying opportunity from my point of view.

    So even at worst case scenario it is still a pretty good deal for $99 yes ?

    Now lets consider a better scenario where you reach RVP level.
    1) About 4 times the commissions on all personal sales.
    2) Overrides from all down lines
    3) Trailer fees on total investments portfolio.
    4) You can sell your RVP position for about 10x annual earnings. My RVP makes 200K a year so he can sell he’s position tomorrow for $2 Million.

    Some general comments about other message boards. When reading various other message boards like Ripoff-report etc then ask yourself the following. Who is the person posting? A lot of the bad posts I believe are done by upset whole life insurance agents whom has had lots of charge backs due to insurance replacements from one of the 100,000 Primerica agents. The only valid complaints I’ve really seen are ones where people complaining about posting a resume online and then being recruited by Primerica and this is highly discourage by the company. There are also some complaints about the poor presentation of some meetings done by some RVP’s. For that I would say if you really want to join the company then look for some other RVP office in yellowpages and see some of their meetings. If you find a office you like and the energy feels good and the poeple are sharp then join them. If you join a successful office you will make good money.

    Lastly I would like to pose the following:
    The middle class in North America is dying under debt, waist full whole life insurance and poor/no savings for retirement. If most of the middle class keep doing what they doing now then the whole North American continent will collapse in 20 to 30 years from now and it will make Russia look like a picnic. As far as I can see Primerica is the ONLY company that has the resources and sales force to try and combat this problem and help people in meaningful way. Right now Primerica only has about 2% market penetration so it’s going to take lots more effort.

    Good luck

    Good luck.

  6. @Jack
    Thanks for contributing so much info about it – it sounds like it is working well for you and you brought up a few things I didn’t know…

  7. I don’t know much about it myself, my father-in-law worked for them for quite a while, and had quite a bit of mine and my husbands money invested with them. I know from us, my husband invested about $5000 with them, and 6 years later was only about to recoup about $2000. My father-in-law had a similar situation, but I don’t know the specifics. Granted, we invested about 2 years before 9/11 and the big market downturn that accompanied it, but when we pulled the money, most of the other funds we looked at had a much better return, ie: not negative and those that were negative were not nearly as negative. Because of that my father-in-law stopped working for Primerica and we know have all our investments with Edward Jones. That’s just my personal experience with Primerica.

  8. Bob,
    I’m curious, can you list some of the reasons why you haven’t joined the company yet. I’ve analyzed this company from every angle and sure it’s not perfect but compared to ALL other part-time opportunities out there this can’t be beaten.

    I’ve tried lots of stuff like filling up surveys for hours at a time to only get paid a couple of bucks for the effort. Tried amway/quixtar for a bit until I figured out that they really make their money from all the “must have” “training” CD’s and paid seminars.

    Primerica business overview seminar is FREE. The FNA is FREE. On Monday’s and Friday’s I go to my RVP office and watch EPN (our internal training channel) for FREE. Sure my RVP pays something but he doesn’t charge me a cover fee to sit in his office and watch also. He really wants me to improve and succeed because it’s in everybody’s best interest. And I go because I’m really eager to learn more about finances (so that I can retire earlier and not work to 65 like everybody else)

    Financial services is just that a service, there is no product handling so Primerica is one of the purest MLM opportunities. Other MLM fails and gets classified as scams either because of all the “add-ons”, “expensive education CD’s”, “product handling”, “paid seminars” etc.

    So please, enlighten me as a non-Primerica yet open-minded person what is stopping you from joining?

  9. @Michell

    Could you kindly mention which mutual fund you were invested in, I would like to lookup the chart on yahoo finance. That would surely be a new record for a mutual fund to drop 150% over a 6 year period.

    If not then I assume you have a made up story to make Primerica look bad and trying to get free advertising for Edward Jones.

    From your website:
    I can see you resell various mutual funds similar as Primerica, coincidently you also resell Van Kampen which Primerica does.

    So if your trying to make Primerica look bad yet you resell exactly the same mutual funds? I smell a rat!

    Agents from other companies are so desperate and shameless for business that they must go to the extreem of lying, making up false stories and examples to try and win some business. Thank you for adding fuel to my fire.

    This example so perfectly illustrates my point of the only bad press I’ve seen on the net about Primerica is made up stories from desperate, spineless competitors.

  10. @Bob
    Sorry for getting to this post so late — as you know, I’ve been busy. :)

    I believe the combination of what you and Jack wrote paints a fairly good picture of what Primerica is all about, and I feel that there’s not much substance I can add to it. However, I can share my short-lived Primerica experience with you.

    I was recruited here in the St. Louis area a few months ago, and I must say, I really like what they do. They have a good business model, and the people (at the office I visited…not sure about the others) actually have a heart to help the struggling middle-class of America. The motto of my church is “Honor God. Help People.” So, it was inspiring to see that same spirit on the Primerica people.

    There were a couple of turn-offs for me. First: the fact that many of the folks (especially the higher-ups) seemed extremely over zealous. They had a goofy air about them…like a super-hyped team spirit (You know…”Go team, go!”), and that’s not who I am. I dreaded doing the team cheers at the meetings. It came off as cheesy. Now, I have no clue if they do that at other Primerica offices. That was just my experience, but I hear a lot of MLM companies/meetings are like that anyway. No big deal, I was slowly able to overlook that. The second thing that turned me off was the referral/recruiting process. For every FNA (Financial Needs Analysis) that they do for you, they will ask you to refer 10 people (preferably struggling middle-class families) to their services. I’m a single, 26-year old guy, and I honestly don’t know that many families that fit that bill. I know of some families like that from church, but that’s not the place to refer/recruit. Plus, I was very uncomfortable asking my friends, who were skeptical of Primerica and other MLMs in the first place. Nevertheless, this is a small price to pay considering they do the FNA for free (I believe its estimated value is around $1000).

    Aside from those turn-offs, I like Primerica. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for me. My schedule was just too busy. Between church activities, loved ones, and my current job, I just felt that I wasn’t able to put enough time/effort into Primerica. Plus, with all the extra driving to the team meetings alone, my gasoline bill was really adding up.

    All in all, I think Primerica is good. If you have a heart to help others, the drive and determination to be successful, and can give it your time, then you may want to look into it. It definitely is something that can eventually become quite lucrative by building passive income.

  11. @Jack
    I appreciate your comments, but as I mentioned at the end of the post I want to keep this civil – from reading michelle’s comments – It in no way sounds like an ad for Ed Jones, and it appeared to be a simple explanation of what she saw happen.

    As far as me joining Primerica, the reason I haven’t is because I don’t want to. It really is as simple as that. As I mentioned earlier, I do respect them as a company for a few different reasons…

  12. For all stock lovers. There is a rumor that Primerica is going under its own ticker name. If this is the case then this will be a strong stock to purchase.

  13. yep, I have heard of them, but just didn’t seem right for me at the time.

    @ Bamboo –
    Prime America with it’s own ticker symbol? sounds great. however, I remember Russ Whitney going public a few years back. they quickly dropped to penny stocks and eventually was delisted.

  14. As a Christian who tries to be his brother’s keeper and a financial/insurance trained professional with NOTHING to sell (I have a corporate home office job), I would recommend you steer a wide path around Primerica reps amd the funky cool-aid they’re selling.

    Lets examine the ‘help’ someone got from re-doing their finances:

    A Primerica bi-weekly mortgage with $6,000 in points (plus closing costs)

    An overpriced Primarica term life policy (save 30-50% by shopping around)

    Extra money invested in loaded brokerage account funds OR company provided variable annuity accounts.

    Thanks for all the ‘help’

    How do I know? I’ve had a FNA done. I’m also experienced enough to ask for all industry required disclosure forms.

    You spoke of recruiting new people? That’s their only marketing method. The first thing they want from you is a list of 20 of your friends and family. Since you’re new and un-licensed in the financial services world, you ‘upline’ will ‘help’ you call on your friends and family; but if sales are made, who gets the money? If you don’t have a insurance or NASD license, they do. But don’t worry recruit some new people, call on their family and friends and keep that money.

    Why the continous recruitment of people? Because 99% burn out making little or no money.

    You speak of Primerica spinning off of Citibank? I’m sure Citi would love the opportunity to improve their image. Primerica will have a more difficult time recruiting without the misleading “come work for a Citibank company” cold calls.

    Want a job in this industry? Find an entry-level job at a reputible company and learn the ropes.

  15. I am working for Primerica and have been with my husband for 4 yrs now. It is work. You just do not sit back and collect a paycheck because you joined the company. Depending on the integrity of the rep you concur with depends on what you get. Some reps I know have poor mutual funds that they set clients up with, while others stay on top the game per say, and want to do the best for their clients. As far as pay – it firsts depends on the sales level you are at, as with any job. All companies are a pyramid. All companies have a CEO, then VP’s, the upper mgmt, middle mgmt, and workers. So the idea of Primerica being a pyramid scam is ridiculous. As far as the other part of pay – yes you do recruit people. However, you do NOT need to recruit to make a decent living, if you follow the ethical system you were taught. You do need to recruit if you want to eventually have a decent residual income and have a business, that one day you can pass on to your children. If that is a scam, then lets call up Sam Walton and tell him that Sam’s and Walmart are a scam. He started something and built it from the ground up. Yet now, he does what he wants, when he wants. Why? Because he “recruited” people and collects a residual income. The difference. Primerica recruits to build recruits. Walmart recruits (hires) for employees that they control their income. Not picking on Walmart – I admire Sam Walton – just using his success as an example.

  16. @Misty
    Thanks for sharing – you make a good point about pyramid schemes – if you draw the org chart, it would appear that most of them are a pyramid 😉 and I find it encouraging that you say that you can make a living with Primerica WITHOUT recruiting… I think many people abandon the idea because of the recruiting… It is good to hear that you can do it without…

  17. I work for primerica and do not get paid to hire people. However I do get paid if I train someone but thats only through overides.

  18. @will
    I was under the impression that you get a percentage of your “hire’s” sales – is that not correct?

  19. For all you Wall St. wizards out there, let me lay it on you this way. 22 years with Primerica, plenty of money, plenty of freedom. Instead of listening to the doomsdayers, just go out and work hard, live right and find something to believe in. Somebody has to drive the bus, as long as its not me. Just go make money for you and your family. Dont be a crybaby just because it does not work for you. This opportunity is not for everybody, let me leave you with this…some will, some wont, so what.

  20. As a Primerica Rep, the following are the facts:

    1. A pyramid scheme is based on recruiting with the intention of making money off of the entry fees. These fees are normally pretty high. Then they mask it with products that they know aren’t really going to sell.

    Primerica- $99 = life insurance class, teacher, books/materials, AND reimbursement of fees for a passed test. Seems like they wouldn’t stand to get rich off of this???

    2. Primerica’s financial services are competitive. No one ever said that Primerica was the CHEAPEST, but for the families we serve, it makes their situation much better than it was or would have been. In most cases they haven’t and never would SHOP for a better bargain. So we educate them on how money works and allow them to make the decision. For families who have NEVER had ANY of these products, this could only help them get to a better place financially.

    3. Recruiting – Primerica allows you to make money from marketing CITI’s services whether you recruit or not. An employee would be happy with that. Primerica promotes business ownership which involves recruiting in order to build an organization. It’s methods my not be typical, but you have to admit at some level it is very effective. EVERY business recruits and trains people in order to grow.

    Now here is a point to ponder. If I had a business in your neighborhood that only sold CITI products and services and I was successful at it. Then I came to you and said, “hey come work for me and market these products”. Most people that were in the market would say “you’re giving me a job, sure when do I start”. THE MINUTE I SAY, “oh yeah and you have the opportunity to be ME and own your own shop, let me show you how to get it done.”…then it’s a scam…lol

  21. it seems that the old timers are the one that are very happy with Primerica. The last newsletter I saw from Citigroup regarding Primerica was like 8-10 years ago. If Primerica is just a starting company, then I would 95% join, but now it seems it is top off. They say the fees are minimal, the other monthly fees are also minimal, the commission is low, but if you have thousands of people, then you do get the money. Like I mention earlier, it is at its peak. Also after speaking to a few rep, none can give me a straight answer on how they make the money. Some say through recruiting, some say through commission, and others said through the commission of the people you recruit.

    It also feels like the different between a real medical doctor and a “quack” doctor. You can’t get the full license, so you improvise. Get people with less knowledge, charge them alot less, and hopefully you will get the QUANTITY, but not the quality.

    The only thing that made me think about it twice, is maybe “I Know” I can get tax except on many things that I would do with Primerica, like travel expense, entertaiment, food, lodging, etc….

    Last thing,

    It just doesn’t make sense when a company ask you to pay them for you to work for them. Again, like I said earlier, no one can answer me how Primerica get their income and the last info that I can find that link Primerica strongly with Citigroup was from a 8-10 years old news letter.

  22. John,

    I will try to answer your questions as best I can as a Primerica Rep.

    Primerica is a subsidiary of Citigroup. You can go to and see that. Citigroup chose Primerica to market it’s services to middle income familes. With 6 million clients, Primerica has a pretty strong LINK with Citigroup.

    Primerica doesn’t charge you to work WITH them. The $99 fee covers your Life insurance class, books, etc. As well as paperwork that needs to be filed with the state. We are regulated just like any other company and have to pass the same exams. They don’t make a dime off of you just joining.

    We get paid just like any other financial services company. We get commissions on each piece of business that we close. I can make money this way without EVER recruiting ANYONE. The recruiting aspect comes from the nature of ANY business. You recruit to build your organization. You recruit and train each individual to work independently just like you and the perk is that you are rewarded for training that person. You get a percentage of each piece of business that THEY close. No one wants to work hard forever, so you build a team.

    Also, the only way our business would TOP OFF is if the debt epidemic in the U.S. was completely solved or if people became completely happy with their current income. Until then, the market is wide open.

    Thousands of people may be necessary to make millions, but to be a six figure earner the head count is minimal as long as your team is productive.

  23. Good evening everyone. Im a consultant for an automotive center and was confronted by a client with information regarding Primerica. So I went to his office this evening to hear more, because I really had no clue what services they provided. I am so torn in what to think due to the Pro/Con listings I have found on my search on the web. I also was not given much info tonight from the gentleman I spoke with, it was a very informal interview, he was very interested in getting to know me I would guess. He did mention more than once that the money that could be made is Amazing!! I did mention to him money does not bring my passion out but helping people does… So my question is this to anyone that may be able to Truely answer, Is Primerica sincer and really willing to help others?? If so, It may be something I would consider after I see how it is really ran. Any comment would be grately appreciated. Thank you.

  24. Scott,

    First and foremost, Pro/Con listings on the web are like looking at reviews for any product that you wish to purchase. If you look at every review, no matter how good the product is, you will find negative reviews. The same applies with most large corporations. So what you MUST rely on is our ratings with the entities that regulate us: ambest, NASD, SEC, etc. Then on a representative level you need to speak with those who actually are doing well and see what their experience has been. We often take the advice of those who the opportunity was wrong for in the first place. Truth be told it is definitely not for everyone, but if it is a fit for YOU and your situation…no one can assess that but YOU.

    Our focus is to help families get into a better financial situation than they are currently. So we give a simple education on financial concepts….things that you could normally do on your own, but currently are not. We understand that most of middle America is in debt because they are not aware of these concepts. We provide the vehicle for you to get to a better financial place by mapping out where you are and how to get to where you want to be based on YOUR specific case. Next, of course we have an array of services that can help you accomplish that and that is where the commission comes in.

    The key is that Primerica along with Citigroup knows that a lot of middle America cannot afford a financial planner or advisor. We will never claim to be financial planners, but we can teach you about how money works and how to make it work for you.

    The rep that you had the informal interview with more than like ly looking to peak interest and then invite you to a business opportunity meeting where most of those questions can be answered in full.

  25. @Scott
    You bring up a very valid point about reviews… There will always be bad ones and always will be good ones. There are a lot of people who always say good things, even when they are bad and vice versa. The key to looking at reviews, is spotting trends and facts that can’t be disputed. That is why I wrote this post – I was and am happy to see all of the comments from both sides of the Primerica spectrum, so hopefully people can get a better understanding of what Primerica does and doesn’t do…

  26. Dominique

    I have a couple of friends who are in the company, and I too have mixed feelings. I feel that Primerica do offer “okay” products and in alot of cases, can save a family hundres of dollars on their mortage…which they should invest the difference, hence Primerica does nothing financial wise for my friends who are agents. They work hard at it EVERYDAY. Soliciting recruits (which I do not like), they approach people in a restroom, mall, parking lot, grocery store, gas stations, and even when they are out on dates. They have been conditioned into these little obsesses Primericans, And everytime I am doing my research on PFS and other financial and come back to them with hard core facts, they always use the same lines many of the agents uses on this blog and other blolgs across the net. To some degree I would even call them brainwashed. They would neglect their families precious time (even kids) to attend late night meetings ( up to midnight), and weekends. I believe it could be a great opporrtunity, but only for a small few. But I think it can be a big strain on families because people change when they join PFS, because they are fed so much BS, and they make you feel as though the job you are working is crap, and the degree you hard for in school. I am sure many of you could relate who have families and friends who joined. And my friends have no regard on the negative effect they have on their failies.

  27. Dominique

    …and did i mention they make no money. I over a 10mth period one has only made about 4-500 dollars. not thousands. 400-500…and the other has made way less than that, and he has been in it for anout 11 months. And again these are little trained soldiers…you can’t find a more dedicated rep than these two.

  28. Dominique

    last note, in addition to the 199 fee (which is eventually refunded)…you also pay 25 dollars a month to have acces to their online data base (POL).

  29. Thank you for all your thoughts…I have decided that the company is an asset to some but I am not one to fill that spot. Take care, and thanks again.

  30. Let me tell you……run from Primerica, I invest 1200.00 a year with them and I lose 200.00 of that money every year for the past 3 years. Haven’t been able to get a hold of my “REP” (what a lazy POS) for 6 months. Try moving your money out of their crap investments and you get slammed with outrageous “Redemption Fees”. I’m finally biting the bullet taking my 20% loss over 6 years and paying my outrageous redemption fees and going to find a reputable broker who is going to sell me overpriced insurance…… $80.00 a month for a $400,000.00 life insurance policy that I got 6 years ago (when I was 24) and in great health.

    Sheesh…shame on me, and shame on you if you give them one dime….you’ve been warned :)

    P.S. anyone can reccomend a reputable broker for me…details appreciated…



  31. Aaron…I highly recommend going to and utilizing his ENDORSED LOCAL PROVIDERS search. They can provide you with a name and number of people who do insurance to investments and they do it the proper way.

    They teach before selling!

  32. I have read alot about Primerica the last few days or so. I’m really sitting on the fence at this point. My good friend and neighbor called me about it a couple of nights ago and I sat down with him and I guess a RVP. I’m a bid Dave Ramsey fan. One thing that Dave has said is not to buy (or buy into)something you don’t understand.
    I understood what they were trying to do as far as selling insurance and refi’s and other things like that. I do believe American middle-class families are in need of a financial make-over as a whole, so on that note, I believe in the system.
    What I really did not understand is the business end of the deal. They gave me no clear cut answer as to how they actually make their money.
    When my neighbor called me about this, he wouldn’t tell me about it, just that he wanted to talk with me about something new he was doing. That part also left a bad taste in my mouth. He is normally not that way, so I kind of wonder if maybe he was coached to say that.
    The next morning, a member of my wife’s family called and said she was also working with Primerica. My wife told her I had spoken with a different rep the night before and within 1 hour they were over at my house. When they got there, they asked me who the rep was and where he was from. I told them and they seemed very angered about another rep trying to recruit me, statint that their system was much better than the other RVP. This seemed very fishy to me for some reason.

    Primerica doesn’t seem like a scam, just a mediocre operation at best from a employee standpoint. I mean, if they think you’re good enough to work for them, why wouldn’t they just hire you as an employee and pay you a salary and benefits (for say 6 months to a year) to help you get off the ground?
    It also seems like they want you to give them your referrals before you can actually make a profit for doing it(while you are training).

    It also seems like you donate alot of your precious free time away from your family while you get licensed to try to sell the products and recruit new people before you see much money at all. I mean, wouldn’t someone just be better off to go out and get a part-time job instead to help pay for the tests to get the licenses, then go independent so they could give their customers more options.

    This is just my take on it. My friend is very knowledgable about finances so this is why I’m on the fence about this. Sorry for the length, just wanted to state how I felt.

  33. Kinda funny how it’s the number 1 global equity in canada for 2008… averaged 15% return int eh past 5 years, peopel’s money double over the last 5 years… that’s a bunch of bull what you said becky, maybe their seg funds aren’t that good but the mutual founds in canada are killing

  34. @God
    Thanks for stopping by – it is always good to listen when God has something to say 😉 I was just surprised to see that it was on the Primerica post.

    ps. tell Jesus and my grandma I said hi!!

  35. I found a blog of a Primerica rep if anyone is interested…

  36. Andrew

    Hello everyone!
    I’m glad I finally found a blog about this that doesn’t have it’s last post in November 2006. lol
    Some posters on here (and other bloggs) are making the whole situation a little more focused for me, in making a decision. Thank You!

    I’m supposed to attend the first training meeting with Primerica this Friday. I have been to two meetings with my trainer though.
    Quick info: I have NO financial experience. I’m not all about the money. I’m going to school for an Environmental Science (Extended) Degree in Denver CO.
    I’m not all about the money, and I could never live with myself if I messed someone’s retirement fund by involving them with Primerica. Even though that person accepted the service themselves, I as part of it. Anyway…
    I am a strong believer in “Do what you love, and the money will follow”; especially for my career. Maybe it’s a little bit too optimistic, but I choose to be that way.

    So to answer some questions let me tell you what I’ve learned so far.
    I asked my trainer some of the exact questions you guys are asking. REMEMBER, the answers are pretty much what the trainer has told me, and I did very little research on them. I hope they help, especially as an insider’s info.

    1. How does Primerica actually make their money if they offer such good rates?
    Well first if they beat your current set up (say the way you pay your debt, and through what bank etc) they can actually buy out that loan from whoever you’re with, and transfer it to CitiBank or w/e. Though Citi won’t make as much money as the people you were with before, THEY did just buy out that loan. So if they do this with many loans, then the money does come in. And if people are happy with what happened to them, they are bound to recommend these services to their friends.

    2. The mutual funds are NOT owned by Citi or Primerica; they just use other companies that have good ratings. At least that’s what the trainer said. I have not done any research on this.

    3. The guy told me, I have to work for my money. But in terms of pay per hour, it can be a good earning. Recruiting people onto my team (3 people) will make me more money, but I SHOULD be able to be OK just by myself. Also, I can recruit just one person, and get a slight increase in my commission percentage.

    4. It is like a pyramid scheme, except that it is different.
    Everyone’s work benefits everyone. So you gotta treat employees well, because it all comes back to you.
    You don’t sell products, but services, and as I said, some can really help people (like the debt deals).
    You CAN move up to the top, and get this, WITHOUT becoming competition for the person that was your trainer. Because if my RVP make me an RVP, he gets rewarded for doing that. And not just once, but every year. The amounts depend from 50K-100K.

    That’s it for now, I’ll try and post more later.

    Also, remember that since people are ‘contracted’ by Primerica, every office will have different people running it. So experiences of people joining the company, or using their services or encountering representatives, will all depend on the people that they deal with.

    I’m trying to do as much research as possible, as I am still on the fence with joining or not.
    I work at a restaurant right now, and the money is good, while going to school. Once summer begins, I’ll need more than just the restaurant (and for a college student, it’s not easy top get a job job, as in not sales at the local clothing store or working for target etc.).

    I am considering joining, but I will uphold myself to the standards I have now – my ethics, actually HELPING people and making sure I don’t screw anyone over so I can make a few more dollars.

    My plan is to pay attention to what really works, and recommended it. For example, they seem to excel at helping families get rid of their debt faster and cheaper. I will recommend this to my friends.

    But when it comes to investing in mutual funds and what not, so far I would NOT recommend it. Though history shows MFs are a good route, in today’s economy MFs aren’t going to be too stable.

    So that is my plan. I’m supposed to get my trainer guy in front of 6 families and let him do the talking blah blah. I will do that, but I will warn all 6 parties not to sign up for the mutual funds (at least for now) or do anything else besides the debt consolidation and etc, if the FNA shows that Primerica can indeed beat the current set up they have.

    Any more advice will be great. Also, PLEASE post any questions you would like me to ask my trainer!

    Thank You!

  37. Andrew

    Hello again. I see no one responded…which is great actually.

    I wanted to thank the people that posted on here again, for allowing me to make a more educated decision. I know this is just some blog on the internet, but on the other side there are people, honest and not so honest, that posted. So I did take it with a grain of salt.

    After giving it some thought, and after trying to talk to people about what I was doing and if they could help me out, it became apparent this isn’t for me.

    Though I was trying to ‘work the system’ as to avoid any bad stuff for my customers, as well as make me the most profits. Doing just debt consolidation and such wouldn’t make me a whole lot of money, unless I sold immense amounts.

    Having to recruit customers felt weird and wrong really. Not for me.
    Also having to recruit friends to be part of my team, so I could get a promo wold feel weird and a bit exploitative, even though they did make money, and could be in a position as I was eventually.

    Even if I did have my license, I think I would still have very little expertise in advising people about investments and what not. I wouldn’t want to do that, as I explained in my previous post.

    The trainer guy was telling me that the most common professions people came from, were law enforcement, construction and teaching. So people with just a license and a computer program are out there messing with people’s money. Though there are successes, when you get into investments and mutual funds, the situation gets more serious.

    I forgot to mention the guy also mentioned Primerica is into educating the public (lower class and middle class) about how finances work, and when giving them an FNA or whatever kind of report or contract, they would tell the customers about the small print and so on. Basically exposing everything about a contract of FNA report.

    I did learn some good things from the short adventure.

    Being ignorant of how finances work, or not having at least a basic understanding of what you’re doing with your money, is just asking for loss of money or even trouble in the future. So try and contact government non-profit agencies to educate you a little bit. Also, as others have said, you can educate yourself at a very low price or for free if you find the right sources.

    Good Luck!

  38. Yes you say find a entry level position in a reputable company but then I have to charge people $1500-$2500 and up in order for me to help them. And if they don’t have at least $25,000.00 to invest you will not help them. How many (average) americans have $25k to invest or can afford to pay you/reputable companies 1500.00-2,500.00 or more for your services. I joined two months ago and yes we have to go through the training/licensing process but if I did it your way I (average) american would have to pay thousands for training/education. But the main reason I joined is because my husbands grandfather got robbed by two of the “whole life” insurance agency. We got nothing back to bury him. He had to pay an extra $700-900 to be cremated. My mother is 81 yrs. old, too old to do something better. Thank God her plot is paid for at least. I say I’m getting a good deal for $99.00. I want to expose all those other criminals selling whole life and keeping peoples money instead of to them like it should be.

  39. Yes you say find a entry level position in a reputable company but then I have to charge people $1500-$2500 and up in order for me to help them. And if they don’t have at least $25,000.00 to invest you will not help them. How many (average) americans have $25k to invest or can afford to pay you/reputable companies 1500.00-2,500.00 or more for your services. I joined two months ago and yes we have to go through the training/licensing process but if I did it your way I (average) american would have to pay thousands for training/education. But the main reason I joined is because my husbands grandfather got robbed by two of the “whole life” insurance agency. We got nothing back to bury him. He had to pay an extra $700-900 to be cremated. My mother is 81 yrs. old, too old to do something better. Thank God her plot is paid for at least. I say I’m getting a good deal for $99.00. I want to expose all those other criminals selling whole life and giving people their money instead, like it should be.

  40. The second comment by me has a correction at the bottom. I was typing too fast because I’m on lunch from my full time jail “job”. I want to add that most average americans don’t understand life insurance policies. They don’t understand how the policy works (hidden clauses) in “whole life” etc. Primerica teaches the clients/recruits how both types of insurances work for or against them. My upline told one of my potential clients to keep his term life insurance that he currently had instead of getting Primerica’s offer because he had been rated with preexisting conditions. I would say that is pretty honest on our part. What do you think “whole life” agents would have told him. i have a mutual fund through my job and it gives me great returns. I believe in Mutual Funds.

  41. Dominique

    …and most primerica agents don’t understand the hidden clauses in their IBA nor do they see the fine print on the “opp meeting” presentations; Susie.

  42. joshua derksen

    If your licensed in the industry, you should know you dont talk bad about other companies. Tell me why we have a rating of What is your full name and license number. I know if you are licensed you have been taught about badmouthing other companies. You can lose your license for misrepresenting companies you know nothing about.

  43. can someone in the company tell me why is it okay for agents to flirt with people of the opposite sex as a recruiting technique, but try to say they are only using their people skills…when clearly commenting on someone’s apperance and asking them about being single or not is clearly unprofessional. is this a method often used and if not does anyone else in the compnay believe it is unprofessional…and could be a form sexual harrassment?

  44. Nicky D

    Since you are just SUCH an expert, maybe you should consider doing the research yourself??? Primericas Term life coverage is actually the lowest premium out!! Not only that, but do you know how much your life insurance company paid out in death benefits last year?? I can tell you Primerica paid out over a billion in death benefit in 2007, as opposed to average joes company that maybe maxed out 400 million in ’07. Its alright your company might pay out your death benefit, But I know I’m not gonna leave an investment of that magnitude to chance because they just wanna make a few excuses not to pay. Oh, and Primerica isnt a spin of citi bank. Its actually a sister company of Citi bank, in the much larger Citigroup. I’de really like to take a look at the FNA you had done, maybe you’re confusing it with your boys over at edward jones. You know that advertising buys you all the credibility that you could ever want lol

  45. macg4ira

    My $.02… sorry if it’s too long.

    I’m an IT manager for an architecture and engineering firm. An acquaintance approached me about Primerica. I was intrigued by it since I’ve been through Dave Ramsey and am on a crusade to get totally debt free.

    I know very little about financial services and I’m not going to pretend like I do. Some of the ‘experts’ on these blogs make me smile since I’m not totally in the dark. I’m just not fooling myself or anyone else.

    I actually signed up as a rep before I did the FNA or anything because I seen an opportunity to learn and do something in which i’m very interested. Helping people learn about managing their assets and having the opportunity to earn extra income. Basically for my time only I get to get licensed and trained in an area I like a lot seems like a good investment for that benefit to me.

    Being the IT guy i am, I google’d it and read all posts by the haters, ‘scam stories’ and the hyped up Primerica lovers (that’s how I found this one.) I went to a builders school or some such pep rally on a saturday during this time so I was on a roller coaster of; “did I do the right thing’, ‘I made a mistake’ to hyped up and ready to go 24/7 and reach RVP in 12-18 months. :0)

    Here’s where I’m at after all that…

    1. I think I made the right choice.
    2. I think Primerica offers good products at a reasonable price.
    3. I think this is one of the better MLM systems.
    4. I think the rah-rah rally’s only hype people up and make them reckless, hence the haters from back experiences.
    5. I’m not going to rush out and harass my friends and family and get a bunch of appointments even if that’s what I’m told I need to do 15-20 appts in the first 30 days. I am just telling them about Primerica when I get the chance and I have asked if they would let me train on them. Some of my friends have been interested from the start.
    6. I am going to take my time in trying to sell until I have proper training and licensing.
    7. I am going to approach it as an opportunity to educate people first and then as an opportunity to sell something that will meet their financial needs.
    8. I think that if I provide a valuable service to clients, and I think primerica will allow me to do that, treat clients with respect, be totally honest with them and not pressure them to do what makes me the most money then I will be able to make money doing Primerica…

    Every time i read the list of cons or why primerica is a ‘scam’ they are almost word-for-word which makes me wonder.

    how I feel about a few of them:

    1. primerica’s products are not the cheapest. So what!… My question is not the cheapest but who gives you the most value and obviously price does go into that. I purchased life insurance for myself and wife from Primerica. I checked the internet pricing searching multiple providers and the cheapest I could find was only $4 cheaper per month. We have a local farm and garden store here called Atwoods. i like to go there instead of wal-mart even though I know that I can get the same thing cheaper at wal-mart. Should Atwoods close down because they are unethical for charging 5.99 for something you can by for 4.87 at wal-mart? should the clerk tell you, “You can get that cheaper at Wal-Mart?” Having a person come to my house and take in consideration all financial factors in my purchase is better to me then buying the cheapest policy off the internet. that’s worth $48 per year to me….

    I will try to update how things go… got an ‘appointment’ tonight…

  46. @macg4ira
    it’s not too long – thanks for sharing… I would love to hear how things go after your appointment or after you work for primerica for a little while…

  47. natalie

    Hi to everyone. I have joined primerica just last week and have completed 3 appointments with my RVP. I am also currently studying for my RN exam this june. I am stuck in the middle about whether or not to pursue a career with primerica. I plan to work as a nurse part time (have accepted an offer already) and plan to work with primerica part time as well. I just do not know if I would be able to do both as I am just starting as a nurse. Does anyone have any advice? If there is anyone in this forum doing a part time career with primerica, I would like you to share some of your experiences with primerica. I am very interested in the opportunities that primerica offers but I am very confused as to what to do right at this moment. Thanks.

  48. James

    macg have you ever heard of Senior Settlements? How about conversion features? Did you shop individually
    for yourself and your wife? If i remember correctly PFS has unisex rates. You wife being female may get better ratings at another company. From what I understand pFS doesn’t require anyone to purchase their products, so wouldn’t it be in your best interest to find the best policy for your individual needs?

    Ok I understand the how can you sell it if you don’t own it, but you are an independent contractor not a W-2 employee. Primerica has no loyalty towards you they will do what’s in the best interest of the company as you should do what’s in the best interest of you and yours.

    Some of us have been where you are and know what it’s like inside and outside of PFS. Something to consider is if the goal is to be an RVP and above, why do some of them leave? Consider the business side…

  49. James

    natalie you can get licensed and be what’s called a referring agent. Just refer people to your RVP and do your nursing thing and since you will be licensed you can be compensated, but of course follow your individual states laws. Ask your RVP about it. I think at one time they called it being an inactive rep.

  50. sam is dead

  51. ronnie bowers

    if you are whining because you’ve never built a business then you need a hug. go ask your bos why he “recruits” or “hires” massive employees? mayb because he wants to have all the labor done for him? have you ever noticed that you employees do all the work and dont get paid your worth while your BOSS calls theshots, determines your income and lives the dream life? gt your mind right and instead of judging you need to get with it before you get fired or downsized!

  52. ronnie bowers

    think you need to check your stats chum! PFS is the heart and soul of citi if they sell that would be awesome then we go public. which will probably make you more comfortable working with us seeing as that would make it more like a “job” for you employee mentality characters. when will you realize that men and women lie and numbers dont. plus when will you become financially independent working for your boss?

  53. Primerica is what most would call a pyrimid, but someone tell me what company is not. Look, no one person can run a succesfull business by themselves. When someone response to your resume on careerbuilder they are looking to add a piece to the puzzle to better the business, same here. The people below us in the workforce has a strong influence on how sucessfull we are. I recently met with a RVP about a job position and I more or less interviewed him. One thing that really caught my attention is how spiritual the guy was, which is a big plus when I consider a job.He was laid back, maybe a little too much. The meeting lasted about an hour and a half and was by no means tense. He was very open and did not stray from the fact that part of your earnings would come from recruiting. For the most part you’ll be offering clients advice on how to take thier current income, cut every corner and plan for the future. In other words what can you live without to pay off your debt. For this you dont get paid, you get paid if the consumer takes out a loan or accepts any other services like an insurance policy. The RVP told me on average per person you’ll make $300-$500 which aint bad. The upfront fee is $99 and $25 a month online access fees. THE COMPANY CANT GET RICH ON THESE PENNY ANNY FEES. The profit comes from the services. If you are not a salesman dont join. If you are shy dont join. If you’ve never had a commission job, start part time as I am. I’ve successfully work sales and can care less if someone rejects my services. You need the same mind frame for this job.

  54. Joe R.

    I’d like to throw in my thoughts as someone who has recently joined Primerica. First of all here are the reasons I joined.

    1.) Hours are mine to make.
    2.) Yes, my upline gets paid via my sales, but to me that’s a way I can ensure I get the proper training and support(i.e. if I succeed, my coach/upline succeeds).
    3.) I really do want to help people get out of debt.
    4.) Primerica has been around a long time and is part of Citi – a reputable company.
    5.) Primerica is audited by the states to make sure its reps are licensed and are practicing good business.
    6.) On a personal note I don’t have any financial knowledge, but in the few weeks of attending training classes I’ve learned many things in a way I can understand them. I’ve put into practice some of the things I’ve learned, so I can see for myself if they work before recommending them to others.
    7.) My wife and I had an FNA done for us, and for the first time in our lives, we actually had a salesperson in our house who didn’t pressure us to buy. We were not even asked to buy. As someone who hates pressure sales, I liked knowing I didn’t have to do that as a rep.

    Now for all of you naysayers:

    1.) Recruiting is encouraged, however, in the same way I wasn’t pressured to join Primerica I will NOT pressure others. Even though I’m new, I’ve already invited some people I know, but I only make one invitation. Furthermore, as mentiones in other posts, ALL companies recruit to grow the business.
    2.) I can’t speak for other states, but in taking the Life Insurance class here for Illinois, licensed Life Insurance Producers, I learned recently, can only present facts about other agencies. Bad-mouthing other agencies is ILLEGAL. Please review what your state’s rules are, if you are licensed and are bad-mouthing Primerica. SHAME ON YOU!!
    3.) Unfortunately there are going to be bad employees in all companies. It’s too bad these bad apples ruin the rest of the company. Name me any company, and I’m sure there are people out there with complaints about them. I for one am determined to watch out for the interests of my clients – – Period – – even if it’s at the expense of a Primerica product. Hey, I may work for Primerica, but they do NOT own me.
    4.) As with ALL things, Primerica may not be for everyone whether it’s being a rep or a client of Primerica. I would hope clients are investigating and crunching the numbers on their own to determine if a Primerica product will work for them instead of just taking my word. In fact, I will encourage them to do so.
    5.) My wife and I did have Whole Life Insurance at one point, and we were paying over $300-$400 per month. OUCH! That wasn’t for us, so we canceled and purchased Term through my Mom, who works for another Insurance Company. Yes, my Mom knows I’ve joined Primerica, and she’s okay with it.
    6.) It’s good to see the VP’s of the company excited about their job and company. Although this may freak some people, I’ve seen the same things at Wal-mart and Target where they have done team cheers right there where the customers can see them.

    Anyway that’s all I have to say for now. Thanks for reading!

  55. James

    Well Mr. Thomas said it straight. Many of you look at becoming and RVP and above. Do you ever ask why people who attain those position leave PFS? Remember recruits=Sales. I don’t think Primerica allows advanement with personal production, unless things have changed.

    Joe R. Citi is currently trying to sell Primerica. being new to the industry your going to learn a few things especially if you consistantly view message boards. You say “I for one am determined to watch out for the interests of my clients – – Period – – even if it’s at the expense of a Primerica product. Hey, I may work for Primerica, but they do NOT own me.”

    The thing is you don’t work for Primerica. Your an independent contractor who markets Primerica products per agreement. You see there’s many people who get sold on the coming into the business to really help people by offering education and great products.

    The problem is when some people find out that their are more competitive products and better compensation that can be had with the same licenses that can be used with different companies.

    Get your liceses, and yes Primerica does own you. Try to sell another companies products or ask what can you take with you if you leave PFS. These things arn’t bad mouthing Primerica they are things you can look up in your agent agreement. Been there, done that..

    Compare at

  56. orange ca.

    so u r saying if u get the licenses, Primerica owns u? and what do u mean by that?
    >> i have a cousing who help me to get in to these bussiness, which i really do not like, he explained me only how could i make a lot of money. now, he is a realtor as well, and he goes to stand outside stores to make appointments. how do u, used to or who helped to sell products?

  57. James

    Ask your cousin or your RVP, if you built a team and you decided to leave Primerica for another opportunity, what can you take with you? Just remember who brought in the downline and who trained the downline.

    As far as the license go people do own their license. Ask them who owns the downline and what does it take for an agent to have ownership?

    Your best appointments are from your warm market or from a referral. I would mention buying leads, but in those cases you may have to contend with an independent agent.

  58. Joe Reyes


    Just wanted to clarify my thoughts as I also like to state facts.

    – Regarding the incident in Bountiful, UT, if the reps and RVP committed a crime, they should be punished. Like I stated above, and you implied by stating we are responsible for our success, there are “bad apples” in all companies. Fortunately, each State regulates insurance business, so each producer and company will be held accountable. Furthermore, you refer to the incident in Utah as an alleged offense (meaning the verdict is still out), but are quick to stain the reputation of the company. As I just stated, if they are guilty they should be punished. What company do you work for? I’m sure there is a less than 100% satisfaction; there can’t be perfect companies with imperfect people working there.

    – Regaring my comment about “bad mouthing”, I stated that licensed Insurance Producers here in Illinois cannot defame another agency or its products. That’s what I learned in both Pre-licensing classes I took (one in ’94 and one this past weekend). It’s not my opinion; it’s law. It applies only to those who are licensed. If you disagree with this law, try to get it changed. If you don’t care about this law and are licensed in Illinois, send me your name and defame any other insurance company of your choosing in writing, and I will forward that on to the Director of Insurance. This way we can see whose opinion counts in the end.

    – If you’re commenting on my thinking I know everything, I actually didn’t say that. As a matter of fact I was clear to state I am new to Primerica. This statement should imply I am still learning about the company and its products. It shouldn’t lead one to believe I know or think I know everything.

    – If you’re commenting on my desire to see my clients do their own homework and crunch numbers on their own, you’ll see that the reason I said that is because I don’t want them to just take my word for it. I never said I wouldn’t be willing to help them; that is an assumption. I give people more credit than perhaps others.

    – Regarding other comments about getting paid higher elsewhere, I wouldn’t doubt that. I know up front what percent I am to receive as a Rep, and I’m okay with it. I know for a fact that the competitor of the company I work at on a full time basis pays its employees higher. However I don’t have plans on leaving because I know where I stand with my present employer and because there are perks that my present company give me that the other wouldn’t. Likewise I’m trying Primerica for my own reasons; it’s NOT just about money with me.

    Thanks for reading!

  59. I work for a MAJOR corpoation that has been around about 45 years. In the past couple of years all of us “little people” have been instructed to recruit new people. I also happen to be one of the people asked to train these folks. Both of these duties are outside of my job description. I was never hired to do either of these things. I don’t make a dime extra for all the people I have brought in and helped train. Lately, those same new recruits have been used to replace the folks with tenure….gee, I wonder why? That’s corporate America(by the way, this is a very well respected company). Now, THAT is a scam if I ever heard one. I have been working for Primerica part time for the past couple of months and I am very happy. I am still in the licensing phase of the employment process. I am curious to see if I can make it based on what I ALONE produce. I was skeptical at first, but I had to change my way of thinking. What is wrong with presenting someone with an opportunty to make more money? I don’t mind that the person who trained me gets a piece of my action, because I will get a piece of the action from those I sign on and they off of their folks….Where I am(my full time job), we have a few fat cats making the lions share of the money off of our backs. It is a pyramid with all the money going to the top. I have no problem with spending $99.00 to get some very expensive licensing. Also, the office I work out of have been nothing but first class to me. They are just regular people who seem to enjoy doing the right thing and they are making money doing it. What more can I ask for? I hope it works out. I hate the snobby view that regular folks can’t learn how money and insurance works. I get suspicious when I am lead to believe that I am too dumb to understand. I would rather talk to someone in my kitchen that go to a fancy office building that I know is being funded from money I am sure they are screwing me out of. Just my opinion….

  60. Lady Skeptical

    I have a friend with them also and I totally agree with your comment about being brainwashed. He eats, sleeps, breathes, and dreams Primerica. We can’t even have normal conversations anymore without him trying to convinve me to join this company. I really think they are brainwashed into using the same statements and into behaving in this manner. They are like tics in one’s flesh.

  61. macg4ira

    just remembered that i would follow up and post after some appointments…

    I am enjoying it so far, things have went well. I’ve made some money; far more than what i’ve put in… Haven’t quite covered the time i’ve put in but i’m going to do 3 life sales in a couple of days so in addition to a couple of other things in the works that will probable get me close to compensating my time.

    I’m not sure where all this energy comes from to spend time writing blogs trying to discourage people from primerica. trolling around these blogs and parroting the same exact things over and over.

    I’ve found it to be exactly what I thought it to be and much more. Of course our office is pretty incredible…

    When you work with a family and they almost have tears in their eyes as they thank you for what you’ve done to educate them and help them. That’s worth more than the money that you make from it to me. Of course some people are beyond help or don’t need your help.

    to address some of the “negatives” that are repeated thousands of times on the net…

    1. captive agent – yes I signed a contract with a no-compete clause. If you work for Primerica you will too. If you don’t like that then don’t do it… I decided if i’m going to do this kind of work it’ll be with primerica and nobody else anyway.
    2. You can make more at other places besides primerica – Maybe that is true when you talk about starting out in one aspect of the business. True it’s possible to start your own independent office and make more money than starting with primerica and working your way up. Get you certifications, licenses pay a big licensing fee with whoever you join to use their name, etc… I have no interest to open an edward jones office or my own independent office. I don’t have the ability or the resources. With primerica, less risk/less reward at first, i get to “give it my best shot” part time, and If i am good at what i do, I have a chance to have my own office and have a 6 figure income. It takes hard work and dedication to getting in front of people.
    3. “you can get it cheaper” – There’s always a cheaper price for anything. I’ve been to the term quote sites and checked pricing. You get a big difference in price from the top to bottom of the results list. So does that mean the bottom of the list is a “rip-off?” No, that’s just their price for your class and group that you fit in.

    that’s enough said.

    I joined because I like the financial services industry, couldn’t make a transition to a full time to some other company so Primerica was perfect for me…

    I pretty much dismiss all the critics online not because I don’t think they have valid arguments but because they obviously have deeper motivations to repeat over and over again the same things that they’ve said many other times and others have said.

    I don’t really have time for that so this will probably be my last post… I used to wonder why some of the successful ones in Primerica didn’t respond to posts like this but now I can see why after i’ve been around some of them…

    If your considering Primerica, i’d say try it out and see what happens, you may like it and it may work out great for you. On the other hand it may not be for you or you may not be the right fit for Primerica… i’m not afraid to try…

    I’m getting my Sr Rep promotion and well on my way to District promotion… We’ll see what happens….

  62. James

    Does anyone know the current commission levels at PFS?

  63. James

    Mr Thomas: please don’t inform the PFS people about the renewals they may be missing out on with a disability or Long Term Care Sale. As independent
    contractors with PFS agents are not employees and
    PFS or the agent has the right to terminate the contract at anytime.

    With that being said. Knowing what you know now, is it
    in the best interest of your family to have Primerica products or should you get the best available product that is suitable for your family situation? So you understand cost per 1000 and how it pertains to the amount of coverage you can purchase right?

    It’s that old question again… Where is your loyalty? To your family, yourself, your friends, or to your upline and company? Take the Banner challenge and act like the client is your mother. That’s what I did and I just couldn’t drink the kool-aid anymore. See you at the top.

  64. Why are you so hostile? So you hate Primerica…who cares? Is it that they are eating your lunch?

  65. Respectfully, I really don’t care what you think. I just don’t like it when folks like yourself pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining and that the difference between you and I is that you “care” about the client.

    I just dumped the EXPENSIVE whole life policies that a family member, you know, a pro sold me(lol!). I feel I am much better off. I can’t wait to get my IRA moved from the “professional” that I have it placed with right now…By the way, I never hear from this guy. I guess he is too busy caring about me to bother to call.

    The reason why I am responding to you is that I keep getting alerts when more posts are up and I can’t help but read. Can’t help but respond either!

    Don’t be so hostile, it’s all good….we will never agree and that’s okay.

  66. James

    Run this quote at

    Zip Code: Yours
    Age: June 15, 1969
    Health: Regular/Average
    20yr. Guaranteed
    Coverage: $400,000

    As a Primerica agent if your client showed you this what would you say? Remember the rule of 72? Remember you do what’s right 100% of the time.

    I used this one because I couldn’t get a PFS quote with other situations. This is to be used just as an example. PFS agents have just one company to compete against an independent. Yes we know. If not you, who?

    If this were you and you had limited funds, whould you just get the PFS policy or shop? Remember before you answer your an independent contractor with PFS, not an employee. There’s no requirement to purchase Primerica products..Let the spin begin.

    Oh wait go back and change the premium from annual to monthly..Maybe now you will get why some of us left. That’s just one example..

  67. Well, nice to see the monkeys performing. I’m going to clear up a few things here. First, Primerica is commonly mistaken for a MLM. According to FTC regulations a multi level marketing company is required to register as such. Primerica registers as a general agency, no different than State Farm–not an MLM.

    Second, like it or not, the opportunity to make more money to bridge the income shortfall that many middle-class families have today is one of the best things that a Primerica agent can offer, products aside. Think about it–you can re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic all you want…that ship’s still going down. If after delivering and FNA with a proper budget worksheet analysis (which EVERY ONE of my fellow PFS agents SHOULD BE DOING EVERY TIME, and shame on you if you’re not), you find that the family is $500-$1000 a month short on income (and having to use Visa to bridge that gap right now), then think about it. Do you not have an income-earning opportunity to offer?

    See, I said OFFER! I’ve had many families tell me “no thanks” after “trying to recruit them” as many of you put it. I feel bad for those who choose to just let the ship go down rather than explore the opportunity to make some extra part time money, but I certainly don’t feel bad for too long. The truth is that anyone CAN do really well in Primerica–not everyone WILL. It’s a choice. And truth be told, if they don’t do it here, then they probably wont do it anywhere else either. The numbers speak volumes in Primerica–too many people have become wildly successful in PFS to dismiss it’s validity. I have yet to find another company on the planet that has more 6-figure earners. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

    There’s a serious amount of people out there who would rather spend time in their comfort zone making excuses as to why they’re in the financial mess that they’re in. You can ridicule Primerica all you want, but if what you’re currently doing isn’t getting you the results you want, then maybe it’s time to try something else.

  68. Wow, sounds like you have the best way to handle insurance sales. You are a pro and you know what’s right for everyone. I’m not sure why you are wasting your time worrying about what Primerica does.

  69. I find it interesting that I used facts and you attacked me with heresay and oppinion. “…and recruit them into a longshot opportunity that hasn’t worked for anyone but the old timers…” Please tell me how you back up that statement with facts?

    “…Isn’t it time you stop selling a “pipe dream” to your downlines. TRULY look at your downline team and ask them if PFS is really proving them with a sustainable business and income?” You dont know me or my team, nor do you know how successful any of us are. Sounds like heresay and oppinion to me.

    Michael, I find it incredibly hard to believe that after 17 years in PFS you can say with a straight face that your highest income attained has anything to do with the company’s system or it’s products. Primerica is (was) the same for you as it is for Doug Hartman. And you’ve got 29 year-old Brandon Neil out in St George, Utah who is about to go over $900K in income and he’s only been in Primerica 8 years. The SAME Primerica you were in. Unless he has a third arm or something like that, it sounds to me like you have no one but yourself to thank for your income. Seriously, grow up and take some responsibility.

  70. I got away from the cult

    Does any PFSer have a rebuttal for the following claim from another website that says the SMART loan is nothing but smoke & mirrors?:

    The BIG Smoke & Mirrors loan—SMART Loan.

    If you want to pay your mortgage off in 20 years, the mortgage industry (including Citimortgage) has something to accommodate that—it’s called a 20 year mortgage. I wish I had the time to go through the numbers right now, but you all can check it for yourself. Run any SMART loan scenario’s total annual payment (including the 26 payments) against a 20-year fixed loan with a “normal” interest rate and you’ll find that the regular old 20 year loan will have a lower:

    payment monthly/annually

    total payment to finish the loan

    fees to get the loan

    NO pre-payment penalty

    Comparing to a 30 year loan, the SMART loan will accelerate the payment, no question about it. Do you HAVE to have a 30 year loan to begin with? NO!!

    Also, the simple interest thing will DESTROY you if you’re ever late. The same power of simple interest saving you money when you pay bi-weekly, hurts you when you miss a payment. The interest compounds DAILY.

    So, if anyone’s argument is that the client doesn’t want to be “committed” to a 20 year loan, here’s my rebuttal:

    If they can’t afford my 20 year theory, they can’t afford your bi-weekly payment either. They can always get a HELOC in case times are tough and they can’t make the payment. It’ll be a lot cheaper than adding simple interest to their mortgage, NSF fees at the bank and being locked up by HUGE pre-payment penalties.


    As for the “opportunity”, anyone that is bright enough to beat the enormous attrition rate that Primerica has can easily get a job that pays a salary. The person won’t have to annoy their friends and family trying to recruit them and finally will be able to offer clients less expensive products, with better features.

  71. Michael, “…Maybe you are making all the income you want, with the freedoms you deservce. Maybe all your downlines are supporting their familes with their PFS income. I wasn’t. And my downlines were’t. I could no long stand up on a Thursday night OPP meeting and sell the dream while I was living a nightmare. I was getting to the point that was almost envious of people that had a “good job” and were making consistent income. Bad times.”

    Just because you didn’t achieve the success in Primerica that you were looking for doesn’t mean that someone else can’t either. I’m living proof of that, and countless others as well (as you know PFS doesn’t hide income levels – it’s all right there on POL). I’m very happy that you were able to find your niche. I’m happy for you that you’re making good money as an independent agent, and that’s really all that counts, right?

    If you re-read my posts, I never said that PFS was any better than another business, vehicle, or system. I only said that it works. For the right person, it works really well. And anyone can BECOME the right person, if they choose to do so–you are not a victim. If Primerica didn’t work for you, then go elsewhere, but don’t discourage someone else who is excited about getting involved from doing it–you may be talking the next PFS SNSD out of getting there.

    How you feel about PFS is not really relevant when someone asks you if you think that they should or shouldn’t do the business. You know, I had a Mercedes S500 for 9 months–that thing was in the shop all the time. Now, I could tell people what a crappy car Mercedes is, or I could just tell the truth–I had a bad experience with mine, but based on MB’s track record of success and lengthy history, I think you stand a pretty good shot at owning a very fine automobile. Doesn’t THAT sound like a better reaction than “Dont buy one of those pieces of crap! I had one and they suck!”

    Now, a mature adult would approach Primerica the same way, right? How about saying: “You know, I had a bad experience with Primerica, but if you do your research you will find that there are many, many people who have achieved financial independence. It’s not going to be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. You should give it a look, and if you decide to do it, make sure that you put some REAL effort into learning the business and getting great at it. You will find that there are many agents in Primerica who never make much money, but there are too many successful people in that company to lead me to believe that it doesn’t work. Instead of asking the people who didn’t make it big why they didn’t, ask the people who ARE successful how they did it? If you don’t like what you hear, then move on to something else–it’s your prerogative, right? What you should do is find out for yourself if you have what it takes, or are willing to develop what it takes, to do really well there. What have you really got to lose, anyway? By the way, I hope that it works out for you–you deserve to win!”

    Doesn’t that sound better?

  72. Jerome Brito

    Just make an appointment to get all the facts.

  73. Michael,

    You said: “Wonderful for you. You are a better man than me. It didn’t work for me, nor for anyone in my Base.”

    I am not a better man than you. You found something that was better for you, and capitalized on it (going independent). For that I am happy. I am only more dedicated to making PFS work for me than you were. Second, it’s not that PFS didn’t work for you, or the people in your base–I think we both know that’s not it. You just probably fell under bad leadership, and/or were probably taught the system incorrectly. It’s not Primerica’s fault that you didn’t do the things necessary to become more successful. Primerica paid you $86K in your best year because you put forth $86K worth of effort in the years preceding that. People earn EXACTLY what they’re worth in Primerica, like it or not.

    Then you said: “As for “others” in PFS…. There are 100,000 Reps or so, and 4,000 make $50k. $2,500 (part of the 4,000) make $100k. Point: There are 5,000 RVPs and only 4,000 make $50k.”

    How is this any different from the W2 world? According to the IRS website less than 2% of all individual tax returns filed in 2007 were over $100,000 gross income. About the same % of licensed reps that make $100K here. The biggest difference between making $100K in PFS vs. as an employee–you are your own boss here and you call the shots. In my opinion, it’s pretty hard to put a price on that. Oh, and the fact that I pay about 8% in taxes instead of the 28% I’d have to pay as an employee.

    You said: “And at PFS they actually think $100k is a lot of money. It’s not.”

    Your statement is based on your opinion–not on fact. Actually, I hear all the time in this business how $100K is the starting point. Almost everyone in PFS knows that if you make $100K no one knows who you are. I tell my reps all the time that $100K is minimum wage in Primerica.

    You said: “OF COURSE how I feel about PFS is relevant!!! They asked ME! If you had a bad experience with your S class, and someone asks you your opinion, or it comes up in conversation, you ARE SUPPOSED to give your experience and opinion! (By the way, I have a E350 2008 and love it). I refuse to be “politically correct”. If have an particular experience and opinion about PFS – I will share it. Period.”

    I believe you would have better understood what I was getting at here had you read the entire post. Your opinion of Primerica has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it works, or could work for the person who asks you about it. Be a grown-up and share your experience with the disclaimer that “while I wasn’t able to achieve the amount of success that I wanted to, you are not me, and your experience may differ. You should explore the facts and ask the people who ARE making big money how they did it. You’ll get your answers that way, and then you can make your decision based on those facts, and not just on how I happen to view the company.”

    And you said: “Again, bottom line: better products, cheaper products, more commission for the rep, more freedom and immediate ownership. And a lot of small things…. truly have your own company (as opposed to a ‘branch’ of PFS’), outside business interests, no annual auditing, no “conventions” that are useless and cost a ton of money, free reign to do advertising (billboards, Internet, newspapers etc), no requirement to maintain an office. It’s sooooooooooooooooooooooo good to be free. Really.”

    And you missed it AGAIN. Allow me to quote myself from my previous post: “I never said that PFS was any better than another business, vehicle, or system. I only said that it works. For the right person, it works really well.”

    I’m happy that you found something that was a fit for you. This isn’t a pissing contest to see whose business is better than whose. I like Green, while you may like yellow. does that make me right and you wrong? No, it only means that we are different.

    For those of you who are considering joining Primerica, meet with an RVP, one on one, and ask them to give you all of the information that you want/need to make a decision. Attend a business orientation to see if you like the environment. And finally, remember that you have almost nothing to lose by trying. If you don’t like it/aren’t good at it, well then you can always go back and get a job, and be just like everyone else.

  74. Michael, I thought you were a worthy debater. Apparently I was wrong. Best of luck to you.

  75. Wow Michael, you didn’t even TRY to rebutt any of Dave’s points just now. I’ve been following you two for a few days and I have to say that Dave seems to be the bigger man here. He never badmouthed you or your new career, and never said that what he was doing was any better than what you do. And he has been able to use REAL facts and logic to explain his success as well as your shortcomings in PFS. I didn’t see any of that from you. Kudos to you Dave, and I’m sure that you have much more success ahead of you.

  76. What is there to debate? Stay at PFS your an independent contractor who owns the licenses you have.
    Sure people can make money at PFS. Then there’s also the side that people can make more outside of PFS, not to mention the difference in contracts.

    There’s is no debate. Micheal knows both sides be it inside or outside of Primerica. Products and how the industry works.

    Here’s something I ran across:

    Have any of you PFS people heard of this guy?

    There’s no debate.

  77. I have heard of him. Nothing new to me–I always address the estate tax issue and set up my clients’ life insurance program to follow along. How about this guy:

  78. Rebekkah
  79. Rebekkah,

    That was a pretty good article. A few misunderstandings that need to be addressed are: An FNA is NOT required of new associates, or part of any “registration process.” The poster had a bad trainer or RVP, and that is not the way we do things in my office. The poster also should not have been pressured to buy an annuity, or any other product, for that matter. Not everybody NEEDS life insurance. If you really believed that properly protecting your family with life insurance was in your family’s best interest, then I’m sure that you’d want to do it right away, vs. waiting until you get a license. How would you feel if something happened to you while you were taking your life classes, waiting to get you license before getting life insurance? Your family would suffer financially over a few hundred dollars in lost commission? Sounds like a pretty selfish reason to wait, IMHO.

    And what the heck is that part about paying $100 to earn loan commissions??? I’ve NEVER heard of that, and quite frankly that sound illegal to me. I’d have the BBB investigate your RVP on that one–and this is coming from a Primerica RVP (me). In California, the insurance license fee is $72, with a $60 fingerprint fee. Primerica DOES offer an exam guarantee, where they will pay indefinitely for you to re-take the exam until you pass.

    Also, the real numbers in PFS are out of 100 new reps, 83 will quit, 15 will become decent part-time producers, and 2 will become RVP’s. I knew that from the get-go, but instead of looking at it from the standpoint that most people do (“wow, that sucks, 98% will never make the big bucks”), I said “me and one other person here are going to have a lot of fun here!”

    Finally, I will add two points–this poster suffers from a middle-class mentality, and was unable to realize it and therefore they washed out of PFS. It is evident in the way they talked about everything as a “have to”. “I have to go to school, have to get a license, have to renew it every year, have to go to training, have to build a market, have to find people who will stick, and finally, have to get good enough to be promoted.” Am I the only one who see this?

    You all should read Steve Siebold’s book “177 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class.” You will see EXACTLY what I’m talking about here with this poster. How about “I get to go to school and learn a new craft, I get to keep my licenses up to date so that I can make money with them, I get be around a great training environment, I get to build a business with my own sweat equity and no one can stop me, and I get to find great people like myself and get better everyday so that as I get promoted I can feel great about myself for having worked hard to achieve something that I didn’t think I could originally do!” Seriously people, have we all lost our drive to be something other than average and ordinary? Will you all watch “The Pursuit of Happyness” please?

    I will say this about the poster–they were right on with how they ended the post–that PFS is a great opportunity for the right person. But believe me, I was NOT the right person when I first joined Primerica. I had to BECOME the right person. And anyone can do it if they put there mind, heart, and soul, plus total dedication into doing it. Ask Chris Gardener.

  80. After all the information/facts posted and the PFS people still don’t see the light, keep recruiting and getting those people licensed. One day they will come across another person who is also working part-time but as an independent agent. Then you will have lost a recruit.

    There’s a difference between staying with a company because of their program and staying because someone just doesn’t want to start over. If PFS agents had the option of just taking their organizations and leaving you would see a mass exit of RVP’s NSD’s, etc.. When PFS does get sold, they will have to make some changes.

    There’s a reason for the not fully guarantee period on their products. There’s a reason the starting commissions are low. There’s a reason they have unisex pricing. There’s a reason some renewals on products are only paid to RVP and above. One day it will become clear.

  81. Michael, Holy cow!!! Did I read this right!?!?? You said:

    “The other thing I will warn all of you looking into PFS about, is the “culture” of “you can do it”.

    If I hear one more comment like Dave said above, about “You have to become a better person, then you’ll win.”, then I’m going to through up.”

    It’s “throw up”, by the way. Aside from that, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? Are you that naive to believe that the “you can do it” mentality is exclusive to Primerica? You ought to take a trip down to Borders and take a look at the self-help section. I’ll wager that 99% of those books have the same theme: You are great! You can do it! Don’t quit! Stay focused! Believe in yourself!

    You have a lot to learn about motivating people. I can see exactly why after 17 years in Primerica you never made more than $86K: You never took the time to understand people. I guess you were absent on the days that Art Williams was speaking.

  82. Did someone mention Art williams? Here’s something someone shared with me recently.

  83. I have a couple questions for Michael Thomas as I’m going to a weekly Primerica meeting for the first time tomorrow night, recruited by a guy I trust completely, and somewhat skeptical of the situation. Truthfully, I’m attracted by the earning potential, given the enormous debt my family is in and limited earning opportunities I have outside my job as a letter carrier. The thought of reaching out to others in my situation is, likewise, appealing.

    Questions for Michael Thomas:
    * Would you have been capable of setting up independently without first working with PFS at least for some time period?
    –> I ask because, though I am educated (two B.A.s and an M.A.), I am not educated properly to do financial advising. With PFS, though, I am mentored, trained and provided software that make up for this deficiency. Through coming to understand the algorithms of the software and through the mentoring, my deficiency will be replaced by experience. Did you arrive at Primerica prepared to go it alone otherwise?

    * Do you hire people to work for you (part-time while they feel the opportunity out) who have zero experience and no relevant education?

    * What sort of clients do you work with now?
    –> I invested in American Funds when I was 20 to 23 yrs old ($2,000/yr for 3 yrs) because a Primerica representative reached out to me. I otherwise would not have sought out investment advice or invested. That investment 15 yrs ago has seen my family through: 10 months of unemployment, unexpected house costs and private school tuition for my oldest daughter for the last two years. Without it, most likely, we would have had to file for bankruptcy and/or lost our home this year, even with our daughter having to go to the truly terrible public schools here. This grace in our lives is due to someone not looking at the most well-to-do families but targeting the solidly middle class.

    These aren’t hostile questions. You have made what seem to me to be valid points and seem to have the goal of steering people in a good direction. I just wonder if your advice is limited in scope. Thank you for your time in reading and responding.

  84. Hey guys,
    I appreciate the debate and discussion going on – but as I mentioned in the article above, I need everyone to stay civil and also not use profanity. I am all for a good debate over the issues, but let’s keep it about the issues and not attack the individuals…


  85. Something to consider is many of us who have left Primeica knowing what we know now if we went back we could be top earners over there. Something to consider is to get big in PFS is to recruit, recruit and recruit. It’s not about the products. It’s about recruiting and getting people trained. The people who make it big recruit and teach how to get referals. They know in most cases no one is talking to mid income people. So their products don’t have to be super competitive.

    Many of the PFS people who post here will see what we are talking about in due time. Many have have come and gone before you. The thing is the PFS opportunity is sold as helping people and a us against the world concept. The problem is once you learn about different products and different carriers you either keep doing what your doing or you make a change. If your on a crusade to save the world how can you offer your product when you know the client has limited funds and not offer a more price competitive product. I couldn’t look my family in the eye and do it. Some can..

    What really messed me up when I was at Primerica was going to battle with people on message boards to practice overcoming objections. They hit me with facts and all I could come back with was hype. Once I opend up my mind and understood that I was my business and not a Primerica employee I was done.

    So the more people ask questions the more they will want to search out the facts. Once you open up that door to your mind it’s over. No matter how you look at it. An indpendent can do everything and more than a PFS agent, but a PFS agent can’t do half of what a Independent agent can do.

    The only factor is who gets there first. Something to think about for Mr. BMP..Primerica is a captive company so you will be only able to offer whatever products they say you can offer. Well what if you ran into a market for Health insurance and wanted to offer that, well you wouldn’t be able to. What if you ran into a senior who couldn’t afford their current life policy they had for years and were about to cash it in. You can’t consider a Life Settlement option. So as you say PFS saved you they also may limit you in business. Just my unsolicited opinion.

  86. Hey wait a gosh darn minute Micheal. I’m learning some things from you. Keep posting. There’s no information like free information.

    P.S. I read “Coach”, and Sandy Weill’s book. Primerica was bought for distribution. Citigroup just wanted the vast amount of Reps. what’s amazing is how different the stories are told in both books. Art Williams was not a captive owner.

  87. @James
    “Hey wait a gosh darn minute Micheal”

    Atta boy! – now it is starting to sound like Andy Griffith show 😉

    no problem and thanks

  88. Lets count the number of times I used profanity vs. Michael. Hmmm…sounds like somebody’s frustrated! You STILL have not been able to prove that your inability to break six figures in Primerica after 17 years was anyones fault but your own. I say it again–I’m very happy that you found another vehicle that is working well for you. Kudos to you. You just didn’t have what it takes to earn that kind of money in Primerica. Nothing wrong with that, BTW.

    My point (which you have avoided with ferver) is this: Why is Brandon Neil now going over $900,000 in income in Primerica after only 8 years in the business and you couldn’t break $100K after 17 years of trying? What makes him so much better than you? I’ll await your answer.

  89. XRL……my question to you is this…..if you are sooooo successful at what you are doing, why do you have so much time to post these long essays about how much you hate Primerica? By the way, your posts are full of bad grammar and words that are spelled wrong. You don’t seem so educated to me. Maybe you aren’t that busy because you are a nasty person. Most suits like you are nasty people, that’s why folks don’t want to deal with you. I’m not brainwashed, I just want to learn the business with a LEGITIMATE and LEGAL company that has some very nice people who have taken the time to show me.I personally have not been pressured or harassed to do anything. You are full of crap and bitterness….find something better to be so nasty about.

  90. Just hadda comment – I’ve had EXCELLENT results investing through Primerica. I’ve purchased about $50K worth of mutual funds over the last maybe twelve years, withdrawn $20K to buy a house, and my investments are still worth north of $70K. Think it depends on what your rep is putting you into. The Primerica Concert series of funds, especially Growth, are crazy good. YMMV.

  91. Primerican

    Honest reply to all you folks who hopefully read through this whole blunder. This will probably rub people the wrong way but the “actual truth” hurts i guess.

    Atleast, when the author of this initial review claims a disclaimer of not completely knowing what’s going on…he’s honest there but he should completely put that first and in BOLD PRINT.

    1. The money business is the most highly regulated industry on earth. That said…there’s no company in the “regulated” USA who would last 31 years in business if they had bad/illegal/take advantage of consumers type business practices. Primerica has been around for 31 years. Enough said….lay your worries to rest on the issue. IT’S DONE!!

    2. For you, “Oh my gosh, he’s making money off this person and that one!” type of people out there (love the internet)….take a really good unbias look at how ALL FINANCIAL SERVICES companies work. Let’s use Edward Jones for example (not picking on them…just using them). Guess what…you have brokers (people who make money commissions off anyone else who works out of his office). REAL ESTATE IS THE SAME THING.

    Please….for goodness sakes…get off this horse now that you actually KNOW better.

    3. Primerica is not for everyone. It’s FOR the individual who is MOTIVATED to get off his butt and change his life for the better by using a vehicle that provides Federal/State Professional Licenses to his disposal. Wanna know why some people don’t make it? It’s easy. People do what they want. Some choose to stay home and watch tv, some choose to be scared on not pick up the phone and call to CREATE BUSINESS by setting appointments. Whatever it is….i don’t care because i personally….AM MOTIVATED. That’s who primerica is for. Still doubt? Ask a fat person why they’re still fat and then come talk to me. They know better, they know they’ll feel and live better if they just took care of their weight issue….but guess what. He’s doing what he wants to do…i dont care why…regardless, it’s HIS CHOICE. More power to them.

    Last one:
    4. Primerica offices are all run independently. Unfortunately, this leaves room for bad training, bad attitudes and sometimes ethical challenges which every business/industry has. It’s human nature and life…please get over this one as well. To be honest, Primerica as a whole and under the right training really does put the consumer first. Main example is this: I’ve replaced whole life products for a family where their ACTUAL BROTHER was the insurance guy that sold them their expensive/retirement stealing insurance policy….moved them over to TERM INSURANCE which was cheaper for them and yes, the difference saved and other monies they had was invested according to their risk tolerances in proper investment vehicles. Sure there’s other cheaper term out there…THIS SO CALLED BROTHER COULD HAVE OFFERED HIS OWN FAMILY MEMBERS THAT….but guess what? He didn’t. HE CHOSE to make a higher commission of his own family…instead of doing the best possible practical thing for them….so you wonder why go with Primerica?

    If that doesn’t convince you of what is truly happening out there…regardless of your own (if true) random unfortunate experience with Primerica Financial Services….


    ps-yes i spent my time reading this and posting this long little message. Get over it if it strikes you wrongly…it’s the internet. :)

  92. Primerican

    Honest reply to all you folks who hopefully read through this whole blunder. This will probably rub people the wrong way but the “actual truth” hurts i guess.

    Atleast, when the author of this initial review claims a disclaimer of not completely knowing what’s going on…he’s honest there but he should completely put that first and in BOLD PRINT.

    1. The money business is the most highly regulated industry on earth. That said…there’s no company in the “regulated” USA who would last 31 years in business if they had bad/illegal/take advantage of consumers type business practices. No person in Primerica gets paid to recruit…only to sell products. Next, Primerica has been around for 31 years. Enough said….lay your worries to rest on the issue. IT’S DONE!!

    2. For you, “Oh my gosh, he’s making money off this person and that one!” type of people out there (love the internet)….take a really good unbias look at how ALL FINANCIAL SERVICES companies work. Let’s use Edward Jones for example (not picking on them…just using them). Guess what…you have brokers (people who make money commissions off anyone else who works out of his office). Not to mention…ask any Ed Jones broker how long it took him to become a broker…pretty much a LONG LONG RETARDED LONG TIME. REAL ESTATE IS THE SAME THING.

    Please….for goodness sakes…get off this horse now that you actually KNOW better.

    3. Primerica is not for everyone. It’s FOR the individual who is MOTIVATED to get off his butt and change his life for the better by using a vehicle that provides Federal/State Professional Licenses at his disposal. Wanna know why some people don’t make it? It’s easy. People do what they want. Some choose to stay home and watch tv, some choose to be scared on not pick up the phone and call to CREATE BUSINESS by setting appointments. Whatever it is….i don’t care because i personally….AM MOTIVATED. That’s who primerica is for. Still doubt? Ask a fat person why they’re still fat and then come talk to me. They know better, they know they’ll feel and live better if they just took care of their weight issue….but guess what. He’s doing what he wants to do…i dont care why…regardless, it’s HIS CHOICE. More power to them.

    Last one:
    4. Primerica offices are all run independently. Unfortunately, this leaves room for bad training, bad attitudes and sometimes ethical challenges which every business/industry has. It’s human nature and life…please get over this one as well. To be honest, Primerica as a whole and under the right training really does put the consumer first. Main example is this: I’ve replaced whole life products for a family where their ACTUAL BROTHER was the insurance guy that sold them their expensive/retirement stealing insurance policy….moved them over to TERM INSURANCE which was cheaper for them and yes, the difference saved and other monies they had was invested according to their risk tolerances in proper investment vehicles. (you Dave Ramsey nuts out there…guess what. Almost 90% of what he tells folks to do…WOW, PRIMERICA has been advising folks to do for 31 years!!!!) Sure there’s other cheaper term out there…THIS SO CALLED BROTHER COULD HAVE OFFERED HIS OWN FAMILY MEMBERS THAT….but guess what? He didn’t. HE CHOSE to make a higher commission off his own family…instead of doing the best possible practical thing for them….so you wonder why go with Primerica? IF the competition won’t even do the right thing for their own flesh and blood…trust me, there’s a market out there.

    If that doesn’t convince you of what is truly happening out there…regardless of your own (if true) random unfortunate experience with Primerica Financial Services….


    ps-yes i spent my time reading this and posting this long little message. Get over it if it strikes you wrongly…it’s the internet. :)

  93. Primerican

    Oh, Michael Thomas…dude. More power to you honestly. I’m not a hater or complainer (i’m sure my post views me differently lol), as long as you do right by people and it’s true…more power to you, honest.

    If not, karma’s a b**** and good luck to you. :)

  94. mmm… forgot to say that about $30K of those purchases was within the last three years.

    I found this thread when I googled “considering Primerica” as I am considering joining up. Now that I’ve actually read the rest of the thread, and not just the parts where people slam their investment vehicles, I have to comment on a couple of other things…

    Maybe their term insurance is expensive – for term. Nobody ever talked about term before Primerica. They should get paid for the time they invest in educating consumers. It’s like buying local – you pay more for maybe the same thing you’d get at the big box store, but the service is where you find the value.

    I have a family member who has been in the business since it was ALW. We live in a roughly 30000 person market, and you know what? If you can’t hit 100K easily in southern California – bad news. It’s you.

    Oh – and Mensa? LOL The first thing they ought to teach members is not to ‘brag’ about it. Let your comments stand for themselves, and maybe someone will say “Holy s*** – this guy’s smart”. If you have to tell them up front “Holy s*** – I’m smart” just so they’ll notice, well, maybe not so much then, eh? LOL

    Have a great day, eh?

  95. Michael,

    Wow, THAT was a pretty lengthy spewage of information that quite frankly had NOTHING to do with the point that I’ve been arguing with you over. Since you obviously missed it the first 5 times I said it, I’ll say it again. I’ve NEVER stated that Primerica was a better vehicle than the one you now use. I’ve only argued that Primerica works. You claim that it doesn’t.

    Thank you so much for FINALLY settling the issue. I asked “what makes the $900,000 earner in Primerica any better than you, who never broke $100K in 17 years”. And you answered:

    MPT: “The reality is these are very unique people and have a drive that most of us don’t have. I know I don’t.”

    Ladies and gentlemen, you heard it straight from the horse’s mouth. Michael just didn’t have the drive.

    Thank you. That is all I was looking for. And the only point I’ve argued you on, BTW.

  96. There’s also the part about massive recruiting. The PFS system is designed for massive recruiting. If he is making that amount (900K) from personal production I would hate to see what he can do on the outside. Yet I know that’s not the case. Think about it why payout higher commissions to green people when for one they have no reference to gage compensation with. Then there’s the fact the over rides have to be paid.

    I don’t think anyone says that people can’t make any money at PFS the issue is the culture and the notion that it’s a client first program. It’s not. It’s a we can come into a home and leave a person better off than before we came type of program. Just as the PFS agents are talking about replacement of Cash value products, the same thing can be said for their Term product. Once an agent understands why they are in the home that’s when you can make the big bucks. If an PFS agent is really at PFS to help people i strongly suggest you don’t read message boards, because sooner or later your going to hear things and see things at trainings and you won’t be able to look in the mirror.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Primerica agents do anything wrong or unethical, it’s just that when you hear a speaker say that you are the only company doing what’s right or you have no competition something you may have read will stick in your craw and then the leaving process will begin. You will start thinking of what you sold your family and friends.

    Let me just say I myself didn’t really see or understand the system while at Primerica. It’s the same with many MLM companies. Take a product and increase the price to pay the field force and give the company a profit and attack the warm market. Do you guys ever wonder why the guarantees on some products may not be a full guarantee? You see the way to make big money at PFS is to just recruit, recruit, recruit. Keep people coming and going. Hit that recruits warm market because they are probably going to quit anyway.
    The system is genius…

    Something people are glossing over is the fact that Citigroup has PFS on the market. Other companies are in direct competitition for new green agents. I am having people contact me and wanting to compare what I can offer compard to what Primerica can offer them. Given the facts and allowing people to make their own decision I have yet to have anyone choose Primerica. I know something like that can’t be verified, but that’s what is going on.

    I know people in Primerica and I had one person tell me I won’t consider anything else. That’s where he wants to stake his claim. I can respect that and if I run into one of his clients he will lose. That’s just the way it is. So we can debate all day and all night, but it’s a new day and Primerica will have to change some things or lose agents. That’s just my opinion from being inside Primerica and being outside Primerica. Today someone can be making 900K in Primerica, but if they lose a good producer things can change over night.

    Like I tell all the people who contact me, don’t take my word for anything. Do some research. Compare side by side. Products and the contract. Once people understand the issue of a not having to deal with a noncompete and having immediate ownership then it’s a done deal.

    So keep getting people licensed and getting them trained on the basics. Your just building for someone else. Hey but what do I know.

  97. SmithmA

    fyi…. the boutiful raid….. all charges were dropped against the bountiful RVP. turns out it was all bogus, probably some “information” dropped to the proper athorities by a local competitor.

    second. how much time and money does it cost to go to school and get a degree? how much money are the teachers making for sharing their knowledge with you?

    its the same way with your trainer taking you out on appointments… your trainer has the knowledge. taking your trainer out on appointments in turn trains you how to do the business. sure you may lose some money in life insurance sales. but in most states you can be debt certified by watching a 20 min video and get paid immediatly on the loans. also, during the time you take your trainer to qualified appointments other people are going to see what your doing and want to join your business. by the time your done with your training appointments and have your liscense you will have people on your team to take you, as their trainer, out on appointments… and so the cycle goes.

    and finally…

    how much does a mcdonalds franchise cost? 1 million. $99 seems like reasonable overhead for starting your own business, wouldn’t you say? even if you must buy flyers and whatnot, your overhead will be significantly less then trying to start up any other business.

  98. Primerican

    @James: You in general basically said Primerica must be MLM in all it’s glory b/c it’s massively recruiting. That’s just business man. More power to the concept and if you think Primerica invented a business model that massively recruits then you’re sourly mistaken. Back in the 1960’s, guess what? State Farm offered a part time opportunity to agents? PFS is a young company…looking to expand massively and branch out it’s market. Let’s talk about current companies. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re quite resourceful but you may have not come across certain particular concepts and realities in your business savvy. I’ll start with Cell phone companies (cingular and sprint—i know for a fact they run this way.) Guess what they do? Hire lots of people, get them to call all of their warm market and offer them cell phone discount and discounted service plans. Once some time has gone by, they take a look…see who’s still work past the point of their warm market and those that aren’t…are fired. Then they go out and rehire a ton of people and get in their warm market….etc etc. Sound familiar? Now, let’s pick Dell. 6 years ago…on their first massive layoff they hired 25% of that work force back and since then have created a system where every two weeks they have hundreds, weed them out and then two weeks later hire hundreds….and so on and so on. Wanna know something beautiful and cost effective? When Dell laid off that first crop of folks….they only did it b/c it’s what was happening to alot of other companies. Dell saw this gained huge funds back into their bottom line, so they took it upon themselves to just lay people off as well…not to save their bottom line like other companies “needed” to….they did it cuz bottom line was all they saw and it was corporately effective.

    Now, I know you’re not saying that you could take down someone who’s developed a $900,000 a year earner by stealing a little business from him? By the time that system has been placed it would take years of TONS of people to quit working and feeding their families for that type of business to turn backwards. Now if you went after (and you made it your mission to) you could certainly put a dent in any industry—PFS has for the last 31 years. Art Williams proved to you its possible…so I look forward to your own company taking on one of the biggest industries in the world and proving that one man CAN make a difference…one day at a time and a lot of years later. You sir give yourself too good of a pat on the back on that one though…you know it’s true don’t even bother lol.

    More power to Citi putting PFS on the market…the leadership is different and goals have been restructured…noone knows yet what’s gonna happen but by no means would that EVER mean PFS is out of the picture. As long as you sir do the right thing for someone and not take advantage of them, then by all means keep doing what you’re doing. Just don’t put retarded stuff on the internet and shoot darts in the dark hoping your internet slander will really make a difference cuz you just seem like a whole life agent trying to stay above water.

    @Michael Thomas. I’m hurt, you’re telling people to stay away from Primerica? Hell it’s how you got started…even if you felt you needed to venture out and try a different system? If it was good enough for you to get started (I’m not trying to slander you, even you’ll admit you’d work under a different system better…and proved it) why wouldn’t it be good enough for someone else? You actually answered why PFS didn’t work for you and i appreciate you did b/c with your layout of events…there could be some validity to your conclusions. I’ll tell you what though…PFS didn’t work for you b/c you didn’t really have PFS. You were under a system of RVP’s who trained horribly wrong and didn’t do crap for themselves either. That’s not a good system? People who succeed at PFS are people who train right, work right and success follows. It’s a turnkey system…which unfortunately some people are too smart for. I’m not saying it’s good for the retarded masses, i’m saying plain and simple…I’m sorry your experience is lame b/c right now you’ve proved you had it in you all along. You just didn’t have the support which could have kept you and pushed you over the fence into success land and then who knows. But it’s happened how it’s happened and cool. I just hope underneath all that success and “go past PFS…there’s more and better!” i hope you realize, truth be told…PFS could have worked for you even without any proper training. You’re not only one with pathetic leadership…there have been a few who’ve succeeded at PFS even with horrible leadership at first (Lisa Jones, Chris Howard, Shane Rudman, etc) but you also didn’t quit cuz you atleast used whatever (might be bitterness, who knows?) to make something of yourself in the same field.

    Now for my real side to come out :)

    I quote you Michael Thomas:James, you are spot-on. I agree with your entire post.

    This comment is so true: “So keep getting people licensed and getting them trained on the basics. Your just building for someone else.”

    Um, he’s not spot on…he’s one of those smart people i was talking about. Your post atleast had more….something good about it…don’t correlate yourself with that dude. He’s entirely wrong. If you got to this point…i can’t see how you’d disagree unless you’re two vultures huddling up together…just preaching same values and you find that in common lol. (or this is the internet—it could be you…smart person pretending to be two by creating internet controversy..OMG!! lol) And as for the keep getting people licensed and blah blah. I know 3 people personally who have made over $100k more than once a year…and don’t really recruit. Personally i’d never build a business that way (and neither would you b/c you obvoiusly make overrides at your own establishment…so please don’t even bother retorting back!) b/c if you never recruit and build people up to their own success…YOU DON’T HAVE A BUSINESS–YOU’RE IN PERSONAL SALES. And i don’t care who you are…you’ll one day be a tired old salesperson and unless you saved like a scrooge…you’ll be broke cuz you never developed a passive business income.

    Atleast we agree PFS isn’t for everyone. We had quitters on my football team too, HS and College but it’s how the story goes. You gotta be willing to be different. Good luck to you internet savvy gurus and keep bashing PFS…it looks good on you. Primerican out!

  99. Well we revert to thinking people who say anything against the Primerica concepts or business model are exclusive whole life producers again. I’ve heard it many times.

    I’m saying Primerica looks basically like a MLM because of how the commission structure pays out compare to other companies. From what I remember
    compare your compensation below RVP to what you
    can get outside PFS for genworth LTC. Look at
    compensation of what you get with your Legal
    Protection Plan compared to if you were an associate
    with Prepaid Legal directly. Look at comparable term Plans length of guarantees against what you can offer
    at PFS. I don’t know if it’s still true, but look at
    having to pay for company product brochures compared to outside carriers providing them free..The money to pay all the different levels and price a product for people to buy has many different factors.

    If we look at MLM companies we see that in many cases the same or comparable product can be had for a cheaper price at Wal-Mart or some other store. Yes we know the product may have some special formula from the high mountains of the moon, but it’s still just a product that has an inflated cost to pay the field force and make the company a profit.

    When I was at PFS we always heard recruits=sales. Back in the ALW days to me it was a crusade and Art Williams
    was about doing what’s right for the consumer. Back then it was his company and he could contract with any company he wanted to to offer the best products he could find. Today Primerica is totally different. It’s not owned by an individual. Today it’s a different ball game. Read the book “Coach”. Art himself says he wish he never sold A.L. Williams. People seem to think Citigroup bought PFS for some reason other than distribution. Read Sandy Weill’s book “Tearing Down The Walls”.

    As for the 900K earner we know that income does come from production of a team of agents. Why is it PFS is supposedly just staying at 100,000 agents all these years? When PFS is sold I would expect a name change.
    The word is getting out about Primerica and when you read message boards on the internet it’s not always as favorable as people try to make it seem. When posters make statements about some of the products or part of the agent agreement why are there never any reason as to why or how it benefits the agent who is an independent contractor?

    Yes I will agree the people who were contacted because of a resume online will say Primerica is a scam. We who have left PFS for other business interest never say Primerica is a scam we just are sharing what we have learned from being inside Primerica and outside Primerica be it business model or what’s available in the industry.

    Tell me as an independent contractor (1099 not W-2)why is it to your benefit to have a noncompete clause in your associate agreement? As an independent contractor why is it to your benefit to have to qualifications for ownership? Considering you want what’s best for your clients why are limited guaranteed products a better consideration than a fully guaranteed product? As an independent contractor why is it a good idea to have to give up a leg(s) to advance to a higher commission level? Why is the starting commission level 25% for new agents?

    Yes it is business..Yet what is the great benefit of being with PFS if you can do the same things you are currently doing outside of PFS and more and have immediate ownership, Advance from personal production if you so choose, Not have a requirment to give up any legs, Not have any restrictions on who you can hire for your team, Not have any full-time or office requirements and possible higher commission levels. What are the benefits of what PFS can offer compared to what can be had outside of PFS?

    Here’s something to consider. Many of the PFS agents don’t know the industry outside of PFS. The agents own their own license. If they currently do not have a huge team or any real ties to PFS, they could step outside PFS still recruit a team and just test the independent waters. If they don’t like it they can always just go back. It’s just a small fee to go back to PFS. Then considering they will be bringing along a already licensed team from what they built on the outside they can ask for a higher commission level from the recruiting RVP. At one time I don’t know if it’s still true, but RVP’s didn’t have to start everyone at the beginning levels.

    As for the statement about people who got started in Primerica well Primerica still made money off of our production so it’s a wash. What opened my eyes to that issue was the book,”Who moved My Cheese”..I know this is old hat, but it was tough for me to leave Primerica. I had the feeling I was letting down all the people who helped me through my time there. Especially my RVP. Well all that thinking changed when I put in my resigination papers. It was the letter from the legal council. It basically read Thank you for your time at PFS. Stay aways from the clients you went out and got for us for a time of 2 years and send us back all brochures and and other documents oh yes thans for the recruits.

    That my friends is when I understood that this was a business. I fought the fight on message boards as you are doing. I thought cash value was evil for EVERYONE..
    I understood why they didn’t care if I quit or stayed. I gave Primerica clients and gave my RVP recruits, so if you look at the big picture I needed them more than they needed me. That’s business and welcome to the business world. So now when I see people posting as I used to and from their post I can see they have no clue about what opportunities they may be leting pass them by becuse of blind loyalty I will plant a seed. People did it for me and I am grateful.

    You can run with PFS if that’s the company for you, but if want to get big. Recruit massive amounts of people. That way you will get some recruits and sales.
    If you can help a potential client great, but do the presentation and get referrals. Don’t worry about industry education. Just concentrate on Primerica products and the system. think next, next, next. Let me say it one more time. STAY AWAY FROM MESSAGE BOARDS.

    One day your going to sit across a client and you know they have limited funds and they need a good amount of coverage and they will look you in the eyes and with total trust in you ask if that’s all the coverage they can get with the money they have? You will answer yes, but will you finish it with “That’s all I can offer, but you may be able to get more coverage with another company for the same amount of money” or you may be in competition for a recruit. It’s going to happen and then the next morning when you looking in the mirror and thinking about the commission you just made and then remembering why you came into the busines to help people the leaving process will start again..Why, because in this instance the client may be a family member. It’s not so much the products. It’s not so much the contract. The big issue for me was the “Why”, I was at PFS. My “why” became clouded. I joined PFS to help people expose the evils of Cash Value and to educate people so they wouldn’t retire broke. I joined PFS for the business opportunity. That was my “why”.
    I knew nothing about the insurance or banking industry.
    the more questions I asked the more I researched and learned. My business was me. Primerica’s business is Primerica. Thaey think as to what’s in their best interest and so should I. I had to leave. That was the right decision for me.

    As for me currently i’m loyal to my business and not any company. There are so many different products and markets to market in with the same license(s) the agents at PFS have many just don’t know it. As always you are independent contractors and you have the right to run YOUR business as you see fit. So call me a Whole lifer if you must. If that’s the best product for a clients situation that’s the product i’m going to offer. Yes term is a great product, but also remember industry wide it only goes to claim 2-3% of the time and everyone is guaranteed to die. There’s two constants in life Death and taxes…Some people do need coverage until death. It may be a financial situation or an economic situation. The product must fit the need. Sorry for the long post. PFS people have at me. Just understand in most instances (nothings 100%) I can replace your program, but you can’t replace mine. To me the only reason your client has your program is because you got there first.
    That’s the way to make the big bucks at PFS, get there first because in many times in your target market no one else has talked to the client. Times are changing. People can search the internet for information now.

    Recruit, recruit, recruit……Keep throwing it against the wall and keep what sticks. Yes PFS is a feel good company, but this is big business.. In the beginning A.L. Williams was the in your face company due to the industry, well now PFS is on the defensive due to the competition for new agents. Primerica is not a scam company. It’s just the market and the industry has evolved. They are not the only game in town.

  100. Ok folks. Just one more rant. Primerica agents firmly believe in bypass the middleman. Well let’s look at it from a business stand point. PFS has a Legal Plan provided by Prepaid Legal. I’m not up on the compensation at PFS, but take a look at what a person at PPL can make on sales in many states without a license.


    New Compensation Addition:

    Residuals and ownership after 12 months in business. If you the people under RVP sell a PLPP plan do you earn residuals? No you don’t and I have been told the RVP will earn residuals after I think it was 3 years. At PPL you can build on a nationwide basis without any agreements having to be signed. You can even sign up associates and have people sign up for Legal Plans on your site and be paid within 24-48 hours. Prepaid Legal pays dailey directly into your checking or savings account.

    If you leave PFS what happens to the business you built training your team to sell the legal products? Are you starting to see it? Your captive, so your opportunities are captive.

    You can go with another marketing organization of your choice for your insurance and investment business. Bypass the middle man (PFS) and market with PPL directly and offer the Family Legal plans and the Business Plans, not to mention the ID Theft plan at PPL. So let me ask you this, are you in business for yourself or are you in business for Primerica?

    Here’s something else I came across when I was at PFS.
    I don’t know if it’s still true, but the Primerica Legal protection Plan was available to offer as a group benefit to businesses. the plans don’t require underwriting so people could just signup and you sent in the paperwork. Well I looked at the income of a new person selling I think it was 10-20 plans a week and it looked like it was less of a hassle to sell the PLPP plans. A person who wasn’t a big Life producer or recruiter could make a good if not better income by selling the plans to businesses as a group with quite a few employees. Check your nimbers and tell me if i’m wrong. Bypass the middle man. If you leave PFS, what can you take with you? If you bypass the middle man and seperate the businesses you have more control..

    Well that’s it for my rants.. Have at me, I can take it..Yes today is a slow day for me.

  101. Hello All,

    I want to thank all of you for contributing to this highly informative blog!

    Special thanks go out to Michael and some of the other former PFS reps who have been able to contribute fairly substantive arguments for their positions. It isn’t hard to find those who are ill-content with PFS on the internet, but it is generally much more difficult to find such folks who can back up their positions with a coherent, articulate and substantive analyses to support their position.

    I was introduced to Primerica through my in-laws and by way of an RVP. I was somewhat intrigued by what was presented to me but was cautious about the opportunity. Shortly after my introduction to the company my wife decided to join. In order to help my wife “fast-track” I became one of her first two hires but at the time I still wasn’t overly enthused about the opportunity.

    It wasn’t until December of 2007, when I became disenfranchised with work, that I began to embrace the Primerica opportunity and as such began to attend regular meetings and trainings. My active involvement encouraged my wife, who had become idle, and we began to host meetings at our home. In January 2008 I became Life Licensed and began to actively build the business. I was quickly promoted and found myself at the top of the state leader board in just about every category.

    I was enjoying what I was doing and was finding some success and therefore decided to quit my job in February; the money I was making with PFS justified this move.

    We just had a competition period end for an all expenses paid trip to San Francisco and I was able to qualify top 20 in my category.

    All this being said, somewhere in the back of my mind I have always questioned PFS and whether or not I am doing the best I possibly can for my clients. I don’t want to simply do better, I want to do the best possible for my clients and that is why this thought-provoking blog has been so beneficial for me.

    I would like to ask the former PFSers who are taking part in this discussion a few questions (and for those who are involved with PFS like Dave you can certainly feel free to chime in as well):

    1)Primerica claims to have been named the “king of term” by consumer reports (a fact that I was never able to verify). There has been considerable discussion of life insurance on this blog and how Primerica’s product isn’t competitive do to its price.

    Certainly if all other things are equal price is very important, but the contention that PFS makes is that the quality of its term product is superior to anyone elses.
    Reasons that I have been given and that make sense on face value for the higher value of a Primerica policy are that there are very few to no exemptions, exclusions, hidden clauses etc. My RVP says that Primerica’s policy is, “you pay, you die, we pay” meaning that Primerica almost always pays out regardless of the cause of death (obviously there are a few exlusions namely death by suicide within the first two years of the policy).
    Is it true that Primerica’s policies are much more straight forward and that they have a much better pay-out rate than other insurance companies. If what Primerica claims is true in this case than I think a Primerica policy would be more beneficial because you would have peace of mind knowing that you fully understand your policy and that your family will receive the death benefit regardless.
    (You see I haven’t been able to verify the truthfulness of this type of claim, perhaps it is an outmoded justification of an uncompetitively priced produt).

    I can apprceciate quality over cost. If I wanted to save some money I would buy all of my consumer products from Wal-Mart though I would undoubtedly be sacrificing quality. Of course the addage goes: “you get what you pay for” but is that the case in this debate? In other words do other carriers offer a comprable product for less money.

    2)Primerica’s approach to personal finance is comprehensive: reps sit with clients, gather the necessary information to complete an FNA, print a report that outlines each area of the client’s finances and then using plane language makes recommendations to the client about a path forward. Obviously the tools in a PFS rep’s belt include insurances (home, auto, life, long-term care), emergency funds, debt consolidation (debt-stacking, GOOD Loans, SMART Loans), mortgages and investments (namely mutual funds and variable annuities).

    The first goal of a PFS rep is to isolate areas where money can be freed up (perhaps through budgeting or the use of a SMART loan, or even by replacing an innapropriate permanent policy for a less expensive term one) and then show the client how to reallocate that freed up money in order to achieve their retirement goals
    Do other opportunities, such as the one that you are involved in Michael use the same comprehensive approach with clients?

    3)A big attraction to Primerica for clients and reps is that it gives it clients and reps access to high yielding emergency fund accounts and investment grade vehicles for as little as $25/month making it theoretically possible for anyone to invest regardless of their economic situation. I realize that such a scenario isn’t lucrative for a rep, particularly if that rep doesn’t have a boat load of reps that he is overriding doing the same thing. However, this does seem like the “right” thing to do. Ideally I would like to be able to help everyone regardless of their situation and at least on face-value it seems like Primerica allows me to do that.
    Again, is this unique to Primerica?

    Michael, you made specific reference to the commissions earned on variable annuities where you currently are…. do you do a lot of VA business?
    What are your commissions like on some of the other products that you offer?

    BTW when you talked about not receiving full production credit for business written it really resonated with me particularly with regards to life volume. In the final month of competition for the San Francisco trip I wrote a policy that had an AP (annualized premium of over $4,000, but I only received credit for $1,500). My Dad who is the top Financial Advisor for one of the largest banks in the North East thought that was bizarre especially since I only got paid 75% of my commission level on 1500 up front. To be completely honest your current situation sounds much better (full production credit (100%) and 100% up-front commission).

    Lastly (and sorry for the incredible length hopefully you could manage to make it to the end) Did I understand you Michael, that the core principles and philosophies that Primerica operates on, with regards to becoming properly protected, debt free and financially independent, are essentially correct and that the main problem with PFS is their limited and more costly product range?

    Thanks very much for the time and help! I am simply searching for the truth!

  102. Here’s something I had no clue about until I left Primerica. In some states you can take an application from a client and send in the agent appointment paperwork along with the application. There’s no need to get preappointed with some carriers before you send in business. Also if you have a case where there may be an issue of a client possibly being rated you can have the ability to shop the case with different companies to see who can give the most competitive price.

    Many different companies do different levels of underwriting, that’s also a consideration when it comes to policy pricing. Swab vs physical/blood work
    think about it..

    The way I see it Art Williams started something great, but as things change people have came along and just improved some of the concepts and taken the business model to a whole different level.

    Something many PFS agents just may not understand. The products you have to offer are designed so the company can make a profit and to also be able to compensate the field force through the different levels. No matter the company or product there’s only so much money to go around.

    I think LIMRA does a ranking on term sales. You can also go to for some great industry infomration

    PFS isn’t the King of term… I think in 2007 AIG was the number 1 seller of term life in the US.. Something to remember also industry wide I have heard that Term claims are running only about 2-3%..

    For the quote “You pay you die” I remember first hearing that come from Ginny Carter. She was talking about the simplicity of Term. Something else to consider for your clients is this. The Life/Senior Settlement market is growing. That’s where the advantage of being able to convert to a perm. product may come into play. A Term product can convert which could lock in a coverage and premium for the life of the policy, which could make it look more favorable to a buyer.

    One more thing to consider is an agent with a Life license can offer Fixed/Indexed annuities outside of PFS. (I could be wrong, but I haven’t heard of PFS offering Fixed/Indexed products.)

  103. Hey Michael, thanks for the informative post!

    Forgive me for asking, perhaps you clearly stated this elsewhere, but where should I e-mail to discuss things further and more in-depth?



  104. Wow. It’s Thurs. 6/26/2008. Did anyone notice that
    Citigroup Sym: “C”.. was down to $17.74 a share? From a 52 week high of $52.97… Bring back Sandy?

    Now we look at Prepaid Legal.SYM: PPD. $41.45 a share. From a 52 week high of $71.49..

    I know this info isn’t really saying much, it’s just something I noticed. This info was taken at 1:00pm EST.

  105. Annette

    I was also contacted by an old boss of mine from years ago with the same approach “I wanted to talk to you about something” and never specified. Only out of respect since I liked her and an old boss of mine, I agreed to meet with her for lunch. She knew I did not own a home or have debt, but targeted the recuiting issue of people I knew and attending meetings and joining her team.
    I don’t like it and feel like it is a scam!

  106. Annette,

    Don’t be stupid. Just because you don’t like it, that does not mean it’s a scam. Primerica functions in a highly regulated industry. I don’t think they would still be in business if it were a scam. So you don’t like the business model…..stay with your 9 to 5 and enjoy your boss.

  107. Well said Annette!

    I have to admit that the above is a very succinct and accurate statement. The subject of Primerica may be a contentious one, but certainly no one who looks at it with a degree of objectivity and intelligence would admit when all is said and done that Primerica is a scam. Simply put, as Annette did, the financial services industry is too regulated, at the federal level, to allow Primerica, a multi-billion dollar company within the industry, to get away with being a scam.
    That being said, questions as to the specifics of Primerica’s business model and the products and services that its reps market can be somewhat more subjective. I believe that those who have posted on this site in opposition of Primerica, led by the likes of Michael Thomas, have put forth many thought-provoking tid-bits of information to consider.

    At the end of the day you must remember Annette, your old boss is more than likely very excited about the opportunity that Primerica offers and she probably felt like you possessed characteristics that would make you a strong candidate for the opportunity. Perhaps you are not impressed with the opportunity, but what if you had been looking for something else, or what if you were looking for some help with your finances and didn’t know where to turn and all the while your old boss could have helped but never tried to approach you. If you aren’t interested in the products, services or the opportunity its no skin off of you or your former boss’ teeth, at least you have the information, what you choose do with it is up to you.

  108. Michael Thomas

    I agree with you Adam (and thanks for the kind words).

    Primerica is NOT a scam, in the legal sense. Nor are they “ripping people off”.

    However, with today’s competitive market, both in products and career opportunities, there truly is no overwhelming reason to do business with them, or to go into business with them.

    As a client, you can do better.

    As a registered rep, you can do better.

    Bottom line: PFS pays reps too little, and they charge clients too much.

  109. Michael I have noticed no matter the facts given some people just don’t want to hear it.

    For those who don’t know here are some of the free magazines such as or or that agents can subscribe to.

    Something that’s common among people that leave Primerica and go somewhere else. At first there’s feeling of being played for a fool. Then there’s the anger stage. Then there’s the inform the world stage.

    At least that’s the stages I went through. The secret to success isn’t in the products at Primerica. It’s in recruiting. Recruit enough people and the products will take care of themself. That’s the secret. Ask any of the big money earners what is the secret to making big income and they will say recruit. Not the quality of the products or about helping families, they will say recruit wide and deep.. Think about it.

    The products don’t have to be super competitive and the compensation doesn’t have to be the best. Why, becuase in most instances the clients and the new agents don’t know any better. Why should PFS pay more if they don’t have to? Why should PFS offer fully guaranteed products if they don’t have to? If the agents or the public find out they can just change their name which they probably will considering all the flack they get on the net. This is big business..
    The people at PFS are not stupid.

  110. By the way,

    on my previous post I maid an error. I meant to say “well-said Lynn”. My apologees Lynn, I was trying to give you credit and kudos for the well-put and succinct response to Annette.

  111. No problem Adam. These idiots act like we have not done the research on the company, know the controversial nature of the business model, and want to try it out anyway. I am not in denial about anything. It’s just that I have heard the arguments and decided to give it a try anyway. I think the haters are protesting a little too much. They are supposed to be so scary successful, but they are spending lots of time posting their condesceding comments to this site. I have an excuse, I am just getting started and am not terribly busy yet! I’ll say it again, not in denial, just want to try it anyway. The more you haters post, the more I think there is something to this opportunity that is making the financial folks teeth itch(that means they must be eating your lunch!). Maybe the “Regular Joes” don’t like or trust you all and want to speak to folks they know and trust. By the way, I have a Primerica life insurance policy whose rates are pretty much in line with everyone else’s. If it doesn’t work out, I will leave….simple….

  112. melissa

    Michael I respect your opinion of PFS. I am one of the people that’s trying to make sense of all the comments good or bad. My question is if you didnt work for PFS before you went out on your own would you be as successful as u are now? Whats wrong with using PFS as a stepping stone to the future? Sure they have you for two years or whatever but after that is’nt it your decision to stay or go? I am a single mom of two, I’ve been a stylist for 8 yrs I have no other skills I’m only 29 yrs old. I can’t afford school nor do I have the time for it. Is there another way to get into this business without spending alotta money or going to school for 2 yrs?

  113. James

    Melissa here’s my two cents. In theory to me PFS is a good place to get licensed, especially if funds are an issue depending on which state your in. I think the cost is $99.00..

    I am grateful for PFS introducing me to the industry, but also you have to consider I also gave them business from my friends and relatives. I also gave them new agents from my recruits. Primerica isn’t doing anyone any favors. To them it’s business.

    If people want to start with PFS great, just know you can earn more money and have the ability to offer more products outside of Primerica. Something you must understand is most people who join PFS have no clue what to look for or what to ask for. At one time RVP’s could start anyone at any level they chose. Not everyone had to come in at the lower level. Ask around.
    Just as licensed agents leaving PFS don’t have to start at another company/organization at the bottom level depending on the company.

    The two years is a major consideration. Most people do contact their warm market when starting out in the business. Well all that business you put on the books at PFS is theirs for two years after you leave. (Consult your agent agreement) So if you leave, you leave with nothing from all the work you put in.

    That’s something else the Primerica agents don’t look at. Primerica has an agreement with Prepaid Legal to market a plan for them. Out side Primerica the Prepaid Legal associates earn renewals on all the business they write that stays on the books, do the Primerica agents earn renewals on that business? From what I heard only RVP’s can earn renewals and then it has to stay on the books for a few years to get it.

    Then there’s Long Term care. From my past understanding the reps don’t get renewals from that business. (Correct me if i’m wrong)..Outside Primerica and writing agent can earn renewals.

    If by some chance you feel PFS is a stepping stone, do what you feel is best for you. Just understand going in and coming out. That’s all most are saying. Many of us went in dumb and blind. we are just sharing what we have learned. Everyone has the right to run their business as they see fit.

    Primerica is not a scam company. They have their business model. Currently they are the big dog for part-timers. Many people tend to gloss over the business part and just look at the emotional feel good parts about Primerica. Yes they do help people by getting them on a program that may be better than they had before they met with a PFS agents. The problem for me was the mindset I was getting that every other company out in the industry was out to rip off the world and PFS was the only company doing what’s right. I bought into it hook line and sinker.

    So if you feel that PFS is your stepping stone go for it, just understand the business going in and coming out. i’m sure there are people right now in PFS who want to leave, but can’t because they can’t take a hit on the current income they are making.

    Can a person make big money at Primerica. I say yes, but you have to have the mindset of recruit and sell to the recruits warm market, and teach the recruit to do the same. To me their system is designed for the recruiter. Do people ever wonder why recruiting is tied to advancemant?

    Outside PFS to earn the big incomes you can have a choice of personal production or by building a team depending on the company you align yourself with. You can have more control of how you wish to run your business and your life. There’s soooo much more.

    Get your licenses.. If you decide to do it at PFS just keep Michaels contact information on file. I say that because he already has it posted…Good Luck in whatever you do…

  114. Hey Bob Lotich,
    I’m an RVP with Primerica. But first I’am a Christian.
    Now let me clarify something for you and the other stiffneck people. From your nonresearch comments, about that most money is being made from recruiting people rather than selling products. It is definitely not true, because if you didn’t know, its against the law to get paid for recruiting. Money can only be earned from a sell of a product or service.
    And on the other comments that the commision payout are a lot lower than the other salespeople in the industry. Have you ever asked why? Or, where does the money come from that pays the higher commissions and higher profits? Probably not. The answer: CLIENTS!
    So its not as high and it will never be as high because our system works on the Agents becoming financially Independant by helping MANY families do the same, not getting paid BIG commissions on one or two clients and the rest of the time playing golf like most of the industry does.
    You don’t recruit a bunch of people to recruit a bunch of people: You do it because you want to give people the chance and opportunity to earn extra income and eventually own their own business in a lucrative field. Thats called the free enterprise system. And even though we live in the U.S.,the best economic system in the world. And the numbers prove it. Unfortunately we still have people who love to remain in bondage and ignorant, no matter what you show them. Primerica is for everybody, but everybody is not for Primerica. Because most people are not willing to pay their own price to succeed. Most people in these blogs including the author want a free lunch and they would be the kind of people that would’ve questioned God the Almighty when He was trying to get the people to the promised land.
    On your non compete 2 year clause comment. Did you ask why? Probably not. Most businesses have a similiar clause. But some reasons for it is to protect the clients interest, otherwise some bad agents that every company could have would make a commission from a product sale and leave right away to another company to sell the same clients again for another commission(Doubledipping). And by the way the clause doesn’t say that the clients have to stay with the company for 2 years (Clients best interest), only that the agent can’t go after the clients the first 2 years. Which by the way if the agent doesn’t stay for longer than 2 years in the industry, they don’t deserve to be in the financial services industry anyways. This is not a 2 year deal or get rich quick opportunity even though few of our offices may be portraying that way. This is where you build long lasting relationships with your clients and teammates.
    Another reason why thats an ignorant comment is because thats like saying I don’t want to get my drivers license because then I have to follow the rules now or submit to the government. Or in marriage: I don’t want to marry because then I have to stay with the same spouse.
    When a company is growing your going to attract all kinds of people: including people that will be high pressure reps. But to make the comments that all companies are the same. You’ll love this one Bob: Thats like saying I don’t go to church because Christian people are all hypocrites.
    Maybe the rep that rambled through some gibberish knew you were not serious, so he was probably trying to get rid of you. All Universities, Professional teams, Government(military), Fitness Gyms and even churches recruit. But when a prospect is just waisting the recruiters time in any field mentioned above. The best recruiters will communicate directly to the prospect if they are interested or not(Then your blogs would say we are to direct). And the other kind of recruiters will communicate with gibberish so the prospect can go.
    Remember every organization attracts joiners that bring the leaders and that winners will find a way to win and losers will always find a way to lose. The opposite of trying to succeed is staying complacent. God our creator gives us a chance to strive not to remain ignorant. But ultimately He does the increase.
    Proverbs 14:23 says In all Labor there is profit, but idle chatter(BLOG)leads only to poverty.
    Primerica is a perfect company, its only when you add imperfect people that make it imperfect!!
    May God bless everybody. But like a pastor once said thank God that He made me think different from the others.

  115. James

    SM: “From your nonresearch comments, about that most money is being made from recruiting people rather than selling products. It is definitely not true, because if you didn’t know, its against the law to get paid for recruiting. Money can only be earned from a sell of a product or service.”

    **The first people go to see are people on their warm market list. They take their trainer and their trainer earns a commision from that sale. Then they train the recruit to train others a with their warm market. Then over rides are generated. No one has mentioned that people are paid from recruiting. Have you ever heard the term “recruit to sell”? Sure many other companies do it also, but the difference with PFS is to advance in commission levels recruiting is required. (Last I knew of)

    SM: “And on the other comments that the commision payout are a lot lower than the other salespeople in the industry. Have you ever asked why? Or, where does the money come from that pays the higher commissions and higher profits? Probably not. The answer: CLIENTS”

    *** Independents can offer the same products that can be offered on the internet, on TV or on the radio. To an extent your correct about clients paying for the excess. Do some comparisons at and explain why your (PFS) rates are what they are. If you don’t see a PFS quote just consider why.

    SM: On your non compete 2 year clause comment. Did you ask why? Probably not. Most businesses have a similiar clause. But some reasons for it is to protect the clients interest, otherwise some bad agents that every company could have would make a commission from a product sale and leave right away to another company to sell the same clients again for another commission(Doubledipping”

    *** Do you really believe that? Now what if the client had the policy for 10 years and the moved agent noticed that rates have decreased with many different companies the past few years? Is that in the clients best interest to not be able to inform them? Also as you are independent contractors who goes out and find clients, and/or recruit and train that recruit, what is the advantage to the agent when contractually the company (PFS) takes ownership of that client and downline? How is that better than immediate ownership and no noncompete?

    For the PFSer’s who read this. Let’s see how a PFS RVP answers that question. You are independent contractors.
    Just because people leave PFS doesn’t mean they will leave the industry. Going to another company with a trained team can help someone get a good/better contract. PFS isn’t the only game in town.

    @Michael; You are 100% correct about no reason to start at PFS. I just didn’t wish to discourage Mellisa.

  116. @SM
    No reason to get so upset bro – the purpose of this post is to let everyone show his or her experiences with Primerica because like I mentioned mine was very limited and I did NOT have all the facts. Thankfully, it has gotten a lot of comments pointing out some of the pros and cons of primerica from insiders, those who left, and others who had been recruited.

    So regarding the comments I made about most money being made from recruiting people – I was told by other reps that I wouldn’t make any decent money if I didn’t recruit people. If this isn’t the case I apologize, but that was what I was told.

    And the no-compete clause – I know some other companies have them and I don’t necessarily think it is that big of a deal, but it is something to think about when planning your career – don’t you?

  117. pat300c

    you know I find it funny that you would complain about a 6,000 closing fee if in the long run you save years and thousands more in the long run. that just seems silly to me.
    I also believe you get what you pay for in insurance primerica was the first insurance company to pay out on 9-11 there are companies that haven’t even paid out still but you get what you paid for.
    i don’t understand how you could think you know everything from a fna try being a client for twenty years then you can talk about the company.

  118. You said some great things but let us look at the truth.

    You pay $99 to get licensed. Awesome deal right?
    Yet you have to give up 6 sales to your trainer (totalling hudreds in lost commissions)

    This is incorrect. You need to get trained. Usually you lose 6 sales, or on average $1800. NOw what do you get for the $99.
    1. Your license for two years. This is 240.00
    2. Class for your license: 300.00+
    3. Your Fingerprinting $100.00
    4. Back ground testing: Depending on where and how deep.
    5. Mortgage License $500.00
    6. Auto and home Insurance: ????
    7. Securities License, $400.00+

    Now if they need more services, they are your clients.

    and take a 25% commission for yourself which is very low.

    I am not sure where you get your commissions but on term products it is low usually. But then most agents do not sell this, since they make more money on Cash value, and not Term.

    Then at some point give up an agency leg group for VP promotion.

    This is true, but if you give up a leg to get several legs. And this is something to look forward to since you only do it once. Then you are on the getting side forever.

    Ouch I don’t know about you but I would rather pay the $300 it takes to get licensed (it is not $600 like they say)

    I am not sure where you get your license, but it cost more than that in California. Also you only get one licens for that money. Remember you need to go to class, get fingerprinted, and your background tested.

    and keep my clients at 60% commission with policies that are more competitive.

    More competitive. that is why they sell all that garbage. How many cash value types insurance are there. 5 to 10. And how many term insurance products do you carry. And is your products equal to Primerica’s or are they cut rate types that disappear and have problems. My Dad died in Jan 2006, Primerica paid his claim in March. We are still waiting for some insuarnace companies to pay us 2 years ago. Primerica paid claims in 2 weeks of 9/11, while most companies waited until the governement decided if it was an act of war. ( This is so they do not have to pay.)

    They always say they are not the cheapest but I fail to find justification for the increased premium when most other companies issue guaranteed level premiums beyond 20 years and they do not.

    So why do people stay at the RITZ, when all it is a room? Econolodge is definitely equal to that. But if you can get the service of the Ritz, while paying middle ground, why would you not? Also since we are willing to work around their schedule, and come to them, would you not pay for service.

    They also must pay for their brochures and FNA subscription when most other companies do free needs analysis without monthly subscription fees.

    I am not sure what company you work for but I know Allstate does nto do that. They require that their agents to pay for more and more. Besides it is tax deductable, dollar for dollar. But then this is an employee mentality, not an Owner.

    Their agents are limited in products and training. They cannot offer anything other than what they sell which means they often have to place clients in a box.

    And You are not? If you are a captive agent you only can sell that product. And since most agents are, then you can’t sell nothing out side the companies. But then they can do different mutual funds and such.

    Their office in Bountiful, Utah was raided for numerous violations of insurance code.

    So one office out of hundreds is caught making a mistake. There are many companies that have them. ANd a violation could be simple, or complex. But then you do not list them.

    As they are now ready to be sold (reported by both the Wall Street Journal and Bloomber News 5/6/08) you have to wonder what will happen to their agencies.

    I am curious, who is being sold? If Citi sells their sales force then great they can sell what ever they want. But as of yet, they are still part of Citi, so this must be a mistake.

    Remember that under their contract they do not own the clients or agents.

    Now, if you work for Allstate, Farmers and most of the other big groups, you do not own the clients. And you can be terminated. In Primerica the only way to get terminated is to do something illegal. I knwo of several Allstate agents that are under the gun, to keep their businesses. ( Or is it their business since they can get fired. I thought owners can’t get fired.)

    Their ratings dropped twice on and the outlook is listed negative. I think that the great days of PFS are done.

    Well it may have dropped, but then again it goes up again. As for your thinking, I am not to sure about it.

    Most companies are 40% to 50% cheaper than they are.

    When it comes to something important like insurance, I do nto go with the cheapest, because remember you get what you pay for. Who wants to call for your claim and get someone in India that requires you to jump through hoops. Or do you want an agent that lives near you to help you.

    Specially when rating preferred women because they do something called unisex rating. They bill women nearly the same as men.

    If it is unisex, then they are the same or is it nearly. I think you are confused.

    I find that most of their agents are strongly indoctrinated to actually beleive anything their VP tells them no matter how far fetched it may be.

    Something I ahve found out, that most non-Primerica Agents steer you to a cash value policy and not to a term plus mutual fund, whihc is best for the client. Most Mortgage people, set you up on adjustable with the intention of redoing your loan in 2 years.

    Now that their parent company will “unload” them soon we’ll see what happens to their ratings and credibility.

    This is the same thing they said when Metlife bought the Insurance business. They bought the business with the Liability, but got a free sales force. This emans they do not pay them unless they sell. Who would like to have a sales force that cost them nothing to equip, cost them no medical or insurance cost, no benefits cost, no office rents, just paying the commissions.

    As for the Ratings and credibility, it is always nice to hear how bad they are doing, since I have stock in Citi. I am making money on it. The main reason I am is because of the sales force in Primerica, since it cost them nothing. Since it seems that this person is a competitor, it does nto suprise me the salm job he is trying.

  119. Ok,whoever was not willing to put who he or she was. Let me help you out Mr. or Mrs. I sell Metlife VA cheaper and ear(earn)substanially more. Warning: Ignorant people do not understand some or all these comments.

    This is how the math works: Clients pay money, companies get the money and divide it in different ways. Some goes to the company that creates the product, some to the company that maintains it, some to the company that is in charge of selling it, and some to the agents that do the actual selling. No company will ever sell anything that knows it will never make a profit. So the fact that you think you sell a CHEAPER product and make more is an oxymoron. You make more because you charge more. Maybe not always in the beginning but for sure towards the end of the product life. Financial products either pay you upfront or in trails. Which also means the company either tries to make its profit in the beginning or towards the end. So if you sell a CHEAP product, its exactly that, a CHEAP product. Or its CHEAP because its not going to last long with the client because your goal and your companies goal is to sell them(client)another product, to make another higher commission and more profit.
    And I know your not against the middle man because you would not have a car or a house or anything else you probably own or wish to ever own.

    Now that I taught you Commissions 101. Let us teach you Value 101. Quotes,Quotes,Quotes is exactly what the Insurance companies yelled out for over 100 years and now the last several years the same have the real estate agents and loan officers. And yet America has been bleeding financially because people like yourself, the so called semi-professionals have been selling dumb products on price and not education.

    To prove it. I ask you how many clients have the companies you sell for have made their client financially independant by selling them(clients)cash value products. Or have you not seen many hard working families lose their homes the last couple of years because reps have been selling so-called good quotes. Just because the financial products have a so-called good quote does not mean its a good product. Thats like buying a car based on a good paint job, not seeing if its a good car.

    Price is only an issue in the absence of Value.(Thats Marketing 101, another lesson I’ll teach you another time). I’m sure you consider yourself successful and drive a cheap car, right? It is clear since you talk a lot about commissions and 2 year clauses, your a product salesman that wants to sell a CHEAP product and make as HIGH as you can of a commission and not care what happens to the clients future as long as yours is taking care of.

    Primerica is a company that makes people aware by educating them on how financial companies and their products really work, so they don’t continue to get taken advantage of. They did my family. So why not stay with them longer than 2 years. It’s called LOYALTY. Something product sales people don’t and will never understand, which is why you can never have client loyalty so your constanly have to continue to push and sell the up and coming new product to the same clients. You would disown your mother and spouse at the first chance you got, too.

    Crusaders die hard. Which is what Christians continue doing, the Founders of this Great Country called America, and the Founders and the Leaders of this Great Company called Primerica. And what do you do? Sell CHEAP products and HIGH COMMISSIONS. Ya, your really going to change the world. Crusades were not found CHEAPLY! Find the real Primerican Crusaders and show them what you really sell not what you don’t and see what kind of response you really get.

    By the way how many people have you trained to own their own business? I’m sure none. So you deserve to stay a salesperson and continue to be as good as your last sell for the rest of your life. Which is not how America was built.

    Last but for sure not least, critic me on some of my God comments, if you know of Him.

  120. melissa

    @ everyone
    I need as much advice and insight I can get. I’m very interested in this industry and would like a career in it. If you’d rather email me you can @
    Thanks you, Melissa

  121. James boy, maybe one of these days you will make your own comments, not repeat what you only hear. See the problem with these back and forth comments in this website, is that we are talking several different subjects. One is product sales, another is building your own business, recruiting and building a team, and last but not least different ways to advertise your products or your business.

    Unfortunately the opposition in most blogs against Primerica are made by the so-called semi-professional salespeople. That all they know how to do is sell CHEAP and HiGH commission products to families that trust them until its to late. These agents or just plain employee mindset people don’t know anything about building a business or company from scratch or even their own client base because it was given to them by the former agency maintainer. So that why it’s hard to talk to people like you. the stiffneck people. It’s like a doctor trying to have a conversation with a baby that was just born. It’s impossible. In fact, atleast they new born would respond.

    So now lets teach you Advertising 101. You can build your business by either paying thousands of dollars in advertising or you can build your business by word of mouth advertising. What a terrible and high crime it is to work peoples warm market.(As was be scarcastic, in case you didn’t know. Quick question: So if you opened a restuarant, you would never talk to your family and friends about it. Because its terrible to try to sell your food to your friends and family. Only strangers should eat there. Ya, right?

    If you would’ve listened right, you would’ve known that all Primerica offices are against “recruit to sell”. In fact when we talk about the the other side, the dark side, we say they “Sell to Sell” which it’s even worse. They sell to sell another product to the same client. Primerica “Recruits to Build”. We recruit a person to help them build a business and a client base.
    It’s funny to read your comments that in order to ADVANCE to the next levels, recruiting is required. Ok, lets say that comment is totally true, which is not. What is wrong with showing a person on how to build a team so they can know what it takes to build a business of there own. Atleast we have an ADVANCE guideline on what it takes to continue ADVANCING to the next levels. It is not a requirement to make a high income. It’s funny because we have people in our company with a lower level contract that make more than some people that run an agency. Which by the way I took that path of ADVANCEMENT and I”ll be darn, it worked because I was looking for something that showed me a path that it didn’t matter if it took WORK as long as it WORKED. And now thank God, almost six times more income then my previous career.
    Now I ask you, do you have to meet quotas where you work? And if you think I’m just talking about sales quotas I’m not. If your an employee, how about when you ask your boss to take a break to use the potty. You oughta be ashamed of yourself, your an adult already, I hope. Quit kissing butt to earn a promotion. Stand for something. Quit looking for a free lunch where the sales come to you.

    For so many reasons. James boy we don’t quote over the internet or t.v. or the radio. Because that would cost the clients more money. Remember the client ALWAYS pays for everything. And another reason is because companies that sell that way normally do not want to provide an education or service to the client. They just want to sell the product the shotgun blast way. Remember people don’t buy products, they buy you. Which is why we retain more of our clients longer than other companies. It’s called client LOYALTY!

    Now let me show you how a Proud Primerica RVP would answer your ignorant comments.(Just replying back is starting to make me feel ignorant). Yes I do believe that. Because I don’t repeat things I hear then type. I actually think, then respond.

    Like I said clients can go anywhere they want to go. No one owns people’s decisions to change companies. How many companies do you need to sell for, to do the right thing the FIRST time. When our company already sells a plain vanilla SOLID term with a GOOD long term investment plan, you don’t have to go and sell another CHEAP product for another HIGH commission to the same client every other year. Which is what the loan officers did the last couple of years in the refinancing boom. Who really benefited? Not the clients. If your selling crappy products for a crappy company, then your right, you have continue to change companies and sell your clients another CHEAP product because you did it wrong the first time and the second and so on and so on, etc. By the way even though we are less expensive than most great service and value oriented companies. I would pay more a month to make sure my family is well taken care of when I’m here and when I’m gone.

    Bottom line is: Term is better than Trash Value, Fixed loans with a debt elimination plan are better then ARMs and Neg.AMs loans, getting out of debt is better than being in debt, Mutaul Funds are better than leaving your money in the bank, Building a successful business is better than a successful job, if there is one. And that is in the people’s best interest!

    I’ll bet if you own your own company, you hire new untested people and give them ownership the first day, right? You would probably open a 401k with profit sharing and tell your employee you can leave my company in a few months after I just deposited thousands of dolloars in your account, right? I’m sure not on both. Why don’t you also ask a top Univerity to give you a PHD degree immediately, because you say so. The fact that anybody that would leave a top Company like Primerica the first 2 years is a confirmation that they are untested to build a company of their own that is offering a six figure income opportunity. They are looking for a get rich quick scheme promised to them by our so-called competitors that are mad because they got some of their clients taken away by us.

    We have clauses because we are an organization that is growing and attracts a lot of different kinds of people, good ones and bad ones. And the bad ones don’t like clauses and guidelines because they don’t like to be regulated by a mother company that wants to protect the clients and the Representatives. And so they come and see what we have to offer or they don’t last long and go somewhere else where they can sell anything CHEAP that makes them a quick buck. The Good ones don’t care if there’s clauses or guidelines because we don’t have anything to hide. And so we come to work, instead to complain and nitpick everything.
    A good and Solid company should offer OWNERSHIP to the people that are COMMITTED and LOYAL to GROW it.

    People that leave Primerica may get a contract that looks higher, but they are still not getting a Business Opportunity that they can offer the same to others which ultimately gives us the higher contract. And more importantly the Opportunity to do the right thing 100% of the time for the clients the first time.

  122. And to finish James boy. Why don’t you and the others, tell us why you really don’t like us, Primericans. Becaused I know you didn’t get up one morning and tell your spouse, I had a dream that I’m suppose to save the world from a company named Primerica or like you guys like to call it PrimAmerica. Your dreams didn’t make you guys prophets did they?

    Why don’t you tell everybody that your either an agent from another company that got brainwashed by your agent boss, or has been losing a lot of your clients by Primerica, or one of your friends or family members joined our company and doesn’t want to hang with or listen to you anymore because your going no where, or joined Primerica and didn’t see eye to eye with the office leadership that recruited you, or even more funny, you probably recruited on and when you found out you had to work and it wasn’t easy to be successful you left like a gazelle being chased by a lion, and last but not least, your probably a person that wants to save the world by just repeating what you hear, and that makes you feel special.
    Well let me let you know that Primerica people are totally aware that we will not get everybody to follow our crusade and opportunity, but then again we’re not looking for everybody. And remember not everybody followed Jesus
    And in closing. There is one thing that your right on. That Primerica is not the only game in town.
    And thats because it’s not a game to play with people’s money and finances and their future.

    And definitely because we are in a League of our own. And we’re not in one town, but the World and growing!

    God Bless Everybody, even the ones that don’t think like us.

  123. James

    SM: Can you advance through personal production? Can you shop impaired risk?

    Everything you want to know about the marketing organization I am with can be seen at

    Also if an agent has a desire to sell investments HBW does support the 6,63,26 and 65 (RIA)..Get this. If someone is a stockbroker or financial Planner who currently holds a series 7 and they wish to offer just Insurance or mortgages, they can keep doing what they are doing and pick which ever product they wish to market. You see people have the ability to run their business as they see is best for them. That’s freedom..

    Yes as you can see, PFS isn’t the only company who is committed to Buy Term & Invest The difference.

  124. James

    I left PFS becuase I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror anymore. A client who had limited funds asked if I was giving her the best coverage available. I had to say i was giving her what we (PFS) could offer. I had to send her to Zurich at the time. Yes I had to do what’s right. Then I noticed I could have given my family member more coverage for the same money with other carriers. that’s when I asked myself where was my loyalty? Primerica lost and I was dead in the water until I came across a Primerica debate on a mesage board and people hit me with facts, not rah, rah..

    I checked out other companies and made a business decision. Yes PFS wasn’t for me. Is it a scam company. No it’s not. The A.L. Williams days are over.

  125. i think that primerica is a good company to help people with financial situations in which it focus’ on. I also feel that the company itself is set up on good standards. the main problem with this company lies in agents. The agents themselves could be very good at what they do but they get paid on what i would call a laddering effect. Slowly moving up the ladder the commissions are split between each level. I believe you can get really big in this company and make alot of money, but you definatley have to work. Good luck to all and i hope it works out

  126. Gideon

    Please don’t stop your discussions; this is highly entertaining!
    I had some guy pick-off my resume on CareerBuilder and I was able to trace him to Primerica. I knew something was up, because I have no kind of financial experience in my work history, and when I mentioned this, he said that my background showed that my experience in the manufacturing industry showed that I had good comunication skills, even though nothing in the resume would have necessarily implied as much.
    Anyway, after reading all of this incredible clap-trap about the ‘financial industry’ – which seems now even to have gotten the attention of an agent of God Almighty – I’m convinced that this is a very good thing to stay the hell away from!

    Thank You all Very Much for saving me!

    The Sword of the Lord and of Primerica!

  127. James

    Gideon the Financial services industry is a great industry to be in. Let me just say it’s not for everyone. I do understand some people like their current occupation or have other career goals. With that being said even on a part-time basis a person can make some great income. A person can market to a few people a year or month or whatever and take that income and supplement a retirement plan or to use with some other bills or whatever.

    A person may not be into the sales part, well then there’s the business side that may look better. A person can hire some to do what they don’t wish to do and earn from their production. The key is to get licensed for that certain product line so you can be compensated.

    If you noticed the examples that Michael has given he has other agents doing production and he is getting paid also from their production. That’s the business side. The great thing about it is people can try it out part-time first and if it’s for them then look furthur in the future. I just suggest for people who are looking at the industry, know your contract and know your options going in and coming out. don’t get emotional about any company, because at the end of the day it’s business and thet’s the way they look at it.

    Like I said the industry isn’t for everyone, but the opportunity to so some big things are there. We are in the beginning wave of the baby boomers and there’s going to be a 15 or 20 year period to attack that boom. Do some reasearch..The financial companies are designing products and there’s not enough agents to handle the coming business.

  128. Hey all. I’ve been in PFS for about a year and a half. Before I say anything about my experiences here, I’ll let you know about me.
    Number 1: I am a college student @ FIU (Business/Finance Major.) I’m a junior.
    Number 2: I researched this company for the first 6 months I was here. YES..I RESEARCHED FOR SIX MONTH ( a bit irrational but I’ll make my point, soon.) I got my licenses (Life & Health & Securities) all before I recruited one person and before I wrote even one sale…FOR ANYTHING!!!

  129. Hey all. I’ve been in PFS for about a year and a half. Before I say anything about my experiences here, I’ll let you know about me.

    Number 1: I am a college student @ FIU (Business/Finance Major.) I’m a junior.

    Number 2: I researched this company for the first 6 months I was here. YES..I RESEARCHED FOR SIX MONTH ( a bit irrational but I’ll make my point, soon.) I got my licenses (Life & Health & Securities) all before I recruited one person and before I wrote even one sale…FOR ANYTHING!!!

    Number 3: I, too am open-minded…through and through.

    First, I mention that I am a college student because I hear so many people repeating the same thing about Primerica reps not having knowledge and education to work in this industry. Studying in the field that I am in, I deal with the industry and I’ll tell you something… having a degree has nothing to do with being good in this business. I have learned more about finance and money, working with Primerica, than even some of my graduate friends (PRIOR TO ME RECRUITING THEM :)

    Having an intelligent and tactful baseshop is truly key in this business. Since day one, all I was told is know your stuff, take your time and always do what’s right for the client. There have been only 2 times that I went back to a client and advised then that a portion of their solution didn’t make sense to switch from their currect programs and it was left alone NOT SWITCHED ANYWAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. All of this high-pressure sales tactics and fallacies about our firm are evidently from competitors. How do i Know? because I’ve never met anyone other than an outside loan officer, insurance agent or securities broker who had a detailed argument trying to belittle my firm. How do they have this arsenal of ridicule?
    One reason: Firms study their REAL competition…if our firm wasn’t a THREAT to their own business and customer retention, they wouldn’t even know we exist…much less know about the products we have and our compensation plans. Go to Are we displaying such information in detail on our public websites? And we don’t have brochures or ads laying everywhere. So, how do they get their information? You tell me.

    Number 2: I bring up my ridiculous researching project about this firm because I never knew of anything such as direct marketing or network marketing or multi-level marketing until I came to Primerica. My grandmother was in MaryKay and I thought, “oh hell no..I wouldn’t dare do that.” All the boxes and the make-up (which I am a minimalist when it comes to that) but my aunt and my cousins jumped right in because that was their niche. I, on the other hand, am excellent at math and logic and studying so I wanted a career that would challenge that on a daily basis or put my mind to work without boring me to a mid-day nap everyday. So, somehow being a broker came to be one of my options after being a lawyer…which i LOVE, LOVE LOVE law and so I began my “quest.” Along my journey in school I took a summer job in desktop technical support (trying out different things) and met my upline. She was happy, bubbly and that excited me to become friends and all she said was the usual (“Would you or anyone you know be interested in earning an extra $500 to $2000 a month?” — DUH!!! I’m a college student..that was like being rich…lol) So, I got an interview, one on one with the RVP Chris Boyd (Baggiero Hierarchy) ( yes one-on-one’s are called interviews and group sessions are called opportunity orientations…makes sense to me.) So as he was speaking to me, just simply explaining everything…it all made sense and kind of woke me up to the kind of world we are in and the economy’s shape at the time and how it was getting worse. So anyways, I was instantly “sold” on the idea of helping people in this way. However, NO IBA WAS SIGNED OR EVEN FILLED OUT AND NO MONEY WAS SUBMITTED (@ the time it was $199.) I wanted to “think about it ” So, I wanted an opinion from my newest friend kelly- my upline and she was recently recruited (4 months prior)and began to tell me about the licensing and how you get paid and about the events and family feel and everything. So, I went to the next meeting with my $199 check already written out but I didn’t give it to anyone..cuz i wanted to check it out. So, I went and it was unbelievable. The baseshop all piled into the office, smiles on their faces, giving kudos about big sales and excited about how they just helped a family the day before and the checks being passed out and the milestones like a Legg Mason tee for securites licensing or whatever and just the environment and the product examples (real clients recently helped and everything.)
    So I was just there to investigate and at the end of the night I handed the check over and was so excited.

    I went home and told my parents (negative from the frist mention of Primerica) But I’m a question asker and I demand actual evidence to back up claims that people make – I’m like a lawyer as far as needing info goes-that’s why at 6 after an IQ test I was told I should be a lawyer…lol- and nothing that they said made sense or had any merit. I began my research simply because I knew someone (whether it was PFS or the ‘rents) didn’t have the truth but I was gonna get it in my own time.

    So, that’s exactly what I did. Now in looking for my evidence, I dodn’t “google it” and look up the name with scam…you do that with any company and it will come up with a bunch of angry people or competitors guised as previous employees ready to rant and complain about anyt and everything-that’s how people are. So, instead I decided to search for legit sources. I visited other Primerica offices and I searched for any forums such as this that had pros and cons. And I found my fair share of both but I noticed a very unsettling trend about the naysayers. They all were saying the same thing in the same structure, if not actu Which led me to conclude that all these claims of wasted money, anger toward uplines and a ‘failed system’ were derived either from the same competitive source trying to knock Primerica out of the box OR by word of mouth and not through actual personal experiences with the firm. I also looked within the company and could see how even the legitimate claims of failure were simply that. Failure. Primerica offers an even playing field for all reps coming in. Guidelines have been set forth and either you follow those on your journey to RVP and beyond or you quit because itwasn’t for you. Whether it was “too hard” for you, the idea of helping family was too grueling because of your mindset or your baseshop is crappy…by the way -> (if you are there for 6 months plus and no RVP is promoted, no growth is occuring or your RVP is stuck in the same income bracket for the past 2 or more years or not on the leaders bulletins–your baseshop is a crappy one.) Okay fair is fair not every company is right for everyone. This industry is not right for everyone, especially netwrok marketing..if you can’t take the heat, get a job !! I don’t care..YOU DON’T MAKE UP THE WORLD…the world has billions of inhabitants. if you won’t, I’ll find someone who will..SIMPLE.

    Point is, anyone with the UNDERSTANDING and common sense to undestand that more goes into a business that having a name and a goal to make money can figure out Primerica and make it work. If you can’t..that’s fine your aren’t gonna make it here anyway.-Move on and live your life the way you see fit.

    Now, I’m border line ranting ,so I’ll wrap this up.

    As, I said before, I’m open mided…VERY open-minded so I even sat down with several other firms in insurance, securites, lending, franshising, network marketing and found something that was very striking. Primerica has a hybrid busienss model and wrapped into one compnay can’t help but be number one.
    Month after month, even in a failing economy like todays, our passing months are steadily being our “best recruiting month ever!!”
    We are experiencing 20-30% increases in business as the rest of our entire industry is crumbling was we watch from the sidelines.
    We are changing so much.
    We got our first $5 million earner last year and are looking to unveil several more by next Convention 2009.
    Our company is getting closer to our goal of paying $1 Billion to our sales force.
    Our marketing tools are constantly being updated to show current third party raves about Primerica and our dedication to helping the middle class.

    And there have been recient rumors about us getting our own ticker and not being with Citi anymore and it’s very true. Back in 93 we acquired Smith Barney and Travelers and shortly after linked up with Citibank to form Citigroup. Since then, our business has rocketed forward and we don’t “need” Citibank anymore. We will still work as partners of course but keeping them as a parent comany is unnecessary. So, by the 2010 when we plan to be a sole-standing company, have the largest sales force in North America, pay over $1 billion to our sales force and who knows, there have been talks of cutting off the RVP position within our firm. So, I, along with many others in our firm are charging forward in pursuit of that position that equals true business ownership and bringing along many of those who want it bad.

    Andl last, I noticed a few comments of people who were confused about how we get paid, so here it is.

    We are apid commsions from our own sales. We are also paid overrides from those recruits that we hire into our business and field train. The referrals that come from field training appointments go toward building the list of clients that new person has to set appointments with after getting licensed- (p.s. if your field trainer took your referrals- you have a crappy baseshop–switch to a new one… your complaint better be legit…good baseshops don’t accept crybabies) Then, whithin my baseshop, that $99 that you sepnd to join our business-you can get back…by witnessing 6 training sales and hiring 3 people. By the way, doing so, automatically promotes you to district, meaning doubles your compensation level from the beginning and gets you a Palm (as reimbursement for the $99- which actually costs $200 plus out of the RVP’s pocket-who may not necessarily be your field trainer..but who cares-you are now porperly trained and licensed to start business)

    Another way you get paid is via bonuses and incentives ( once or twice a year their a pool of money that pays varying bonuses to people reaching certain production goals usually rainging form $300 to several thousand bucks..just cuz you got up and worked.

    All in all, I love Primerica and its opportunity. I have great frinds because of it-inside and outside of Primerica. I have a legit shot at earning tons of money. I can be there form my parents and family when things come up. I can be the person they go to for money or help instead of being stuck in a rut. I can pass on millions to my kids and grandkids and have it pass on and on throughthe generations simply be teaching them what to do with their money. I can do so much. And guess what? I can still go to law school adn be a lawyer and start my own firm for the hell of it…with or without a pile of clients, I’ll still be alright and still be happy.

    The main thing that attracted me to Primerica is all the damn smiling faces!!! Anyone who has a problem with peopel being happy about thir lives is cynical and/or jealous and not worth the rebuttal.
    So choose for yourselves. If you were given the opp to check out PFS, give it a fair overview and don’t be swayed in the wind just cuz a pile of people of people are saying its a scam. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything and lose a potentially amazing life od happiness. Just be you and think for once…getting an outside option about PFS instead of investigation it yourself is like asking a friend if an outfit that looked like crap on them looks good on you…what do you think their opinon will be? negative or positive? you decide.

    Ok my fingers are tired but I’m gonna go on POL and see about my standing for our Paradise Island trip.

    See you at the top, because the bottom’s too crowded!!!

  130. Jesse

    No one can tell me, other than selling drugs, a better way to get your income from 1 mill…….Because it doesn’t exist….

    It’s simple how we get paid….Commission on our own personal sales….+ any overrides of sales made by people we bring in….And, people you bring in, can absolutely surpass you and keep moving…..

    Each “recruit” is considered a business owner and as you bring them in, you help them get their own business started up….As they get licensed etc…Everyone EATS…

    Also, you can look this up, more million dollar a year earners at Primerica than any other company in America…And last but not least…once you sign up, you can do as much or as little business as you wish…..maybe 1 life sale in 3 years if you need extra cash…whatever…Point being whatever you do for a living is NEVER and DOESN’t EVER have to be infringed upon…You invest the time YOU deem worthy…that’s all.

  131. Jesse

    *that was supposed to say “from under 1 mill a year to over 1 mill a year”

  132. James

    All I can say is keep on recruiting.

  133. Adrian

    The clients are taking care from the company that offers the products. Primerica reps just get the company together to the consumer and the company takes care of any legal or customer issues.

  134. Athens

    People just can’t “cut it” and then they get upset have to vent. No one makes anyone work at primerica! and ppl quit because primerica does not fire agents and those people can not make the amount of money they want. WORK HARDER AND SMARTER and don’t blaime a company just for giving you a chance. A company that provides thousands of jobs to people who can’t get them in other locations along with so many other positive things. I could go on for days about the positive things that this company does. I don’t work for the company but have some good friends that do and are much more happy at their job than I am at mine working for myself. They are very bright, intelligent and good people. I bet that has a whole lot to do with their success. I seriously like the way everything is set up with primerica.

  135. James

    Seperate the business and the products.

    1. Why do many contract with Primerica

    They are sold on the concept of Buy term And Invest The Difference. They are shown how people are paying too much for the amount of coverage in their Cash Value policy. Well industry wide only about 2-3% of Term policy’s go to claim, but peope have 100% of dying. Just something to think about.

    Also if the crusade is to save peope from hig priced products why isn’t it carried over to the products they offer? Wouldn’t it be in the clients best interest to offer them the most competitive product and let them have more to invest?

    2. Then let’s look at he business model. Agents are independent contractors. They hire, train and recruit. Who wons their producers and clients. If they decide to look at oter opportunities hwo carries the weight?

    Just know the business. Just know the opportunity..

  136. James

    Sorry folks. I was in a hurry..

  137. James,

    You may have a point. If only 2-3% of term insurance gets paid out, I like to see where you are pulling your data.
    But let us look on a different insurance, how often do people use their car insurance for that little fender damage. Or their homeowners insurance for a little flood. Insurance is suppose to protect you while you have a need. An example of this is You sell you house to someone, do you keep paying for homeowners insurance on it. I hope not. What about that car you traded in for the new one, do you still list it on your insurance, and pay more? I hope not. Insurance is to cover a risk, and teh game plan is for people to have Cash when they are retiring, not an insurance policy, because everyone, with some cerebral ability, cash is king.

    You must not know anything about the insurance business. Allstate, State Farms, Farmers, all make you sign a not competitive clause contract. This mean the clients you bring in can’t be touch for two years after you leave. This is standard in any industry of sales.

    If you mean who keeps in contact with the clients, well the up line does that. My Agent decided not to do it any more, so I am contacted every 6 months by his direct upline. They keep me informed and give me advice, that if I had broker would have cost me 1,000 of dollars.

    It look like James you need to check out the real life business out there, because you would be surprised to find out the real world is different than what you think.

  138. James

    That’s the problem, I did seek out infromation about he real world. I found out an agent can offer products that can fit the need of a client rather than selling a one size fits all program.

    I found out many people don’t invest the difference. I found out many people don’t carry a mortgage for a full 30 years. I found out many people are losing money in their investment programs and it may take years to recover. I also found out that many people accumulate a good amount of savings and then have health issues eat it away in their senior years. So it’s not as easy as they make it seem in an opportunity meeting.

    What if a client has a spouse and disability coverage isn’t a consideration, can they offer critical illiness, or can a PFS agent even suggest it? What about if there’s a divorce or some requirement for a life policy, can a PFS agent suggest an Annuity and a Return Of Premium Term Policy. From what I understand I guess not. See it’s all about options to fit the needs of the client.

    As for your PFS agent who contacts you every 6 months, next time he/she contacts you ask them to research Life Settlements and inform you on the Pros and cons, and if there is a difference between a policy that can convert to a permanent product and their term policy if a Life Settlement was a consideration.

  139. James,

    There is many problems with your statements bugt here I will try to show you the truth:

    That’s the problem, I did seek out infromation about he real world. I found out an agent can offer products that can fit the need of a client rather than selling a one size fits all program.

    I am curious where you think that Priomerica has one size fits all. They have term, which any competent adviser says to have over cash value. They have a mortgage program that gets you out of debt faster, and if you do not have a mortgage they can show you how to get out of debt faster. Now do you knwo anyone else that does this? If you find someoen they will not do it for free. (The debt program without a mortgage is for their clients.)

    I found out many people don’t invest the difference.

    So this is Primerica’s fault? But we give them the option, which many other adviser will not do.

    I found out many people don’t carry a mortgage for a full 30 years.

    No, they use their house as a piggy bank, and then whine when they run out of equity. Most people never pay off their house since they are not shown how to. Mortgage brokers game is to give you a new loan in 2 to 5 years. Banks job is to keep you in debt. Primerica is the one company doing the right thing for their clients.
    I found out many people are losing money in their investment programs and it may take years to recover.

    Until someoen needs the money, it is only value. But then again that is just like the people that have been using thier house for a piggy banks. And most people want to earn more money faster. They want the quick buck. And when they have waited to long to invest and have the money they need, they blame everyone but themselves.

    I also found out that many people accumulate a good amount of savings and then have health issues eat it away in their senior years. So it’s not as easy as they make it seem in an opportunity meeting.

    Life is never easy. If it was then no one would have problems. But if you have money invested correctly and over time, you will win. If you start late, you need to take more risk. Remember the Grasshopper and the Ants. (It is a story) Those that prepare are usually looked at like lucky, by those who have not.

    What if a client has a spouse and disability coverage isn’t a consideration, can they offer critical illiness, or can a PFS agent even suggest it?
    Funny, my agent talked to me about disability, and I looked into it. I get it from my job considerably less than anywhere else. If you ask the question they can answer.

    What about if there’s a divorce or some requirement for a life policy, can a PFS agent suggest an Annuity and a Return Of Premium Term Policy. From what I understand I guess not. See it’s all about options to fit the needs of the client.

    Well, first you are wrong. I have an annuity from Primerica. As for return of Premium, why would anyone want to waste their money on that. If you took the difference and got a low return of average of 8% you will have more money than if you paid for the extra. And if you die in between your family gets all the money, insurance and investments. return of Premium Insurance is the way the insurance companies mke more money off their clients. Since it has been on the market, most competent advisers have said stick with straight term.

    As for your PFS agent who contacts you every 6 months, next time he/she contacts you ask them to research Life Settlements and inform you on the Pros and cons, and if there is a difference between a policy that can convert to a permanent product and their term policy if a Life Settlement was a consideration.

    Why would I want to convert my term insurance to a permanent policy? Why waste my money? Unlike some people, I plan on retiring, I guess you are not, since you need to protect your income for your entire life. The only people who thinks that permanenet life insurance is a good investment, are those who sell it. (Wall Street Journal). Since it seems you either sell this garbage, or beleive in it, you need to read some competent advisers. Try Suze Ornam. She made money as an adviser for Prudential, has her licenses. Of course if you do not think she is knowledgeable, then you must be selling that garbage.

  140. Tom yes you quote the know all Suzy Oman:

    She does give out some great advice, but it’s general and of course she has to think about the listeners and what products are suitable for general situations.

    Have you ever listened to or read anything fom Ed Slott?

    Tom you have the best program for you. If you don’t think there are situations where a perm. conversion may be an option, your PFS agent is way to knowledgable for me. I think i’m going to have to just close my mind up and go back to Primerica.

    Just for information:

    Term death Claims:

    As for the conversion feature. People can get guaranteed term rates, but can they guarantee their health? As for the benefit of group rather than an individual disabilit policy, well that’s up to you.
    Just consider this situation. This isn’t about disability, but it does make a difference who owns the policy.

    Give this a read:

    Yes I do need to speak to a Primerica captive agent and purge my mind of all the industry information I have aquired.

  141. Tom do some research. You don’t know what you don’t know.

  142. Enter others like Ed Slott:

  143. Tom yes you quote the know all Suzy Oman:

    James if you quote Utube as a source, you need to find some source that has a value. Remember just because something is posted on somewhere doesn’t make it true. Or do you forget the different things that agents have tried to use against Primerica over the years. Most of it got them fined. You might want to be careful what you say.

    She does give out some great advice, but it’s general and of course she has to think about the listeners and what products are suitable for general situations.

    Have you ever listened to or read anything fom Ed Slott?

    Not yet, but I might read it. But then again since you quote UTUBE as reputable, your sources now need to be reverified by me and scrutinized.

    Tom you have the best program for you. If you don’t think there are situations where a perm. conversion may be an option, your PFS agent is way to knowledgable for me. I think i’m going to have to just close my mind up and go back to Primerica.

    For whom. Permanent insurance is only good for people who are leaving more than the normal family is leaving. Now mind you there are a group that might need permanent insuracne, but they are not the middle american families that Primerica is working with. It is good for maybe the top 2%. This was said in the 90’s now it is less.
    By the way your mind is closed, it is proven by the statements and sources. You got the point you want, and then go out trying to prove it with sources. Not a good way to be objective.

    Just for information:

    Term death Claims:

    How many people do this for their Home Owners, Auto and Rental insurance? Insurance is an expense. It was not created to create wealth, but to replace the income of the bread winner.

    Since most cash value policies last 2 to 5 years only, and the average term is in place for 10 years, which is better for the client. Longer coverage is always better.

    As for the conversion feature. People can get guaranteed term rates, but can they guarantee their health?

    Primerica term is guaranteed insurability. This means that you can get the policy redone even if you have worse health. And the rate is what everyone pays at your age, not what you would pay if you were going for insuracne then. Doesn’t your policies cover that. And what about terminal illness? Does yours give you part of the policy if you diagnosised with a terminal illness. It is funny what happens when you bring out your policy out.

    As for the benefit of group rather than an individual disabilit policy, well that’s up to you.
    Just consider this situation. This isn’t about disability, but it does make a difference who owns the policy.

    Since you are buying them from work and getting a group discount, but the person owns the policy. I am curious do you normally try to confuse people? It sounds that is how you are trying to do here.


    Give this a read:

    Yes I do need to speak to a Primerica captive agent and purge my mind of all the industry information I have aquired.

    You mean the lies and misinformation that is told to them. May be you need to look at all the Dateline and 20/20 series about the insuracne busienss and what they do. I mean it makes Car sales people look like angels.

    But it is definitely true that you are part of the group that goes out and spreads mis-information about Primerica. They ahve been doing it since they have been started and they will be there until they are outlawed. We can only hope this is the next area that the governement works on right after the mortgage and banks.

  144. I am curious what other companies posted last year? Let us look at all those companies that they say tehy are their competition. But then 544 million dollars after all expenses is nice amount for a company doing in a recession. How many companies are not even around 30 years later?
    7 billion is gross.

    And by the way the payout has gotten better in the last year not worse. I have seen the RVP and the NSD 1099’s.

  145. I am not going to train you but among term policies what you have is not exactly
    the world’s best term.

    XRL, Since you are part of the group that sells cash value, I do nto think you even know what term is used for in your companies. It is used as a lose leader, something you give someone to get them into your clutches. Being Less does not make it equal. But then again, Magicians never want you to watch the correct hand.

    Suze Orman sells her products via TV. Do you think that if she was as good as
    you think she’d give you REAL PLANNING for FREE???

    No, but her advice is free. She does sell books that cost considerably less than making mistakes by buying cash value. But then I as I quoted before, Wall Street Journal said that the only people that think cash value is good, are those that sell it.
    That’s why you don’t know estate planning uses of insurance.

    Well you must think that it is needed for all estates. It is only good for estates that has to worry about estate taxes. Most states do not have them eany more unless you ahve a huge estate. And then it needs to be in the trust. these are never sold by life isurance salespeople but by the person setting up the trust. How many middle americans are going to need a trust? Not as many that are being sold the idea. But then again you are a salesperson.

    She worked with Prudential? Oh you mean the long de-mutualized company which is
    available via brokerage now?

    Yes she did. but now she is sellign her expertise. It is worth money as people say. And people are willing to pay for it. Just like people are willing to pay more for the fact of getting something out of it. I have an adviser on call, I do nto have to make an appointment on Monday through Friday before 5 pm. he comes to me when ever I want him to. Just like the 5 Star Hotels I stay in. I can stay in Motel 6, but I think paying for service is worth it.

    You only have Variable annuities from Metlife. Which everyone else has but on
    top of that there are indexed annuities which you don’t have.
    Those Fixed Indexed annuities have guarantees that you know nothing about.

    Since you do not know me, Why are you being condescending? I could be very knowledgable of fixed annuities. But for someone wanting to create wealth and not sustain it, you do not use Fixed, but Variables. Also, you can set up a variable to be in money market or very conservative investments and they will always beat the fixed ones.

    know that is not your fault. The enviroment which is shown to you is controlled
    by your uplines.

    I am sorry did you think I am part of Primerica. I am a client that knows more than what you think. I am your worse nightmare, someone who knows equal to if not more than you do. You help people with your lack of Knowledge? SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What about Disability insurance?
    Why only protect income in death when disability is 7X more likely than death?
    Your job issues DI???
    Well I am so glad to know your job covers everyone else in the planet!

    No we are being condesending. Most Jobs have optional DI. Yes it cost the person money but since you are under group discounts, you save money.
    Also it is not 7x more likely. You have the odds of 7 times more to get injured before you die. Those are great statics, but smart people know that anyone can make statics say what ever you want them too.

    Thanks for fixing the Disability issue with your amazong job!
    I am sure your job will cover you and every person for ever right?
    Well at least the guy admits he has a job.
    Look you cannot seriously dismiss DI with that “i got it from my job” thing…

    Since you are condesending, I guess the truth must be getting you. Did you find someone smarter than you. that woudl not surprise me. It jsut scares me people fall for your lines.

    You don’t need to talk about your limited mortgage program. We all know all your
    clients received their letters of transfer and that not-so-smart thing is
    shutting down.
    Preparation for the unload?
    I am sure they told you about that right?

    Letters of Transfers. here is where you need to Prove it. because this sounds so much like the pamphlet an agent tried to use to show that Primerica was not what it says it was. The agent was removed by The State Insuracne Department, and the company he was trying to represent was fined a lot of money.

    What option is there to give a client with one term product which is
    non-guaranteed level premium beyond 20 years?

    If this is more of your retoric. I mean why not put up or shut up.

    Money invested correctly?
    Your choices are limited to variable retirement products only!
    I guess all your clients just loooove risk and dollar cost averaging but if you
    have one that says to you they want NO RISK AT ALL.
    What do you do then?
    Call me?

    I am sorry but if you want no risk, bury it your back yard. Fixed annuities are not no risk. If you keep this up you will end up in an investigation by the State you live in. Banks are not even safe. FDIC is an insuracne that you have that you give up your rights to sue the bank for you money. The contract says that they will negotiate for you what you get. In the past, it has been close to equal, but sometimes it is not. Or did you forget the S and L problems.
    Where did you get that idea that ROP is bad and you can do better with a policy
    that costs MORE than ROP.

    The problem with your story is that ROP is usually same or cheaper than your
    term at any comparative health level. So if ROP GUARANTEES TAX FREE return of
    funds equal to 8% as well…
    Why would anyone want to put money into a mutual fund which is NOT GUARANTEED
    and is taxable (however deferred it may be)?
    The guarantee is only if you do not die. Plus it is tax free since you already paid the taxes with after tax dollars. It is the same scam the cash value people try to say with the money in the cash value policies.

    But then the company needs to be in business.

    With my plan set up by Primerica, I have gotten an average of 12% on my money that would have gone to the insurance company, and if I die, my family gets both. Whihc is better one with ROP or both with Primerica.

    So for the same price OR lower than your term… I can give someone ROP, still
    invest the difference in the same mutual fund you would have picked except they
    walk out with more money and much lower insurance expenses $0.
    Do you really think that companies create financial products without a real

    The only purpose of ROP is to get more money from the clients. And one more thing, since term is only usually paid for 10 years, and you have to have to pay to the end of the time, most ROP will not be paying out. So the Insuracne companies get to keep the extra. Sounds like another Insurance Company Scam like Cash value, to me.

    The funny thing is that all those 1980’s millionaires you listen to all must
    have a state preservation plan.

    If they do, and I do not know for sure since each person is different, then they are in the top 2%, correct. Andf if that is so why are you peddling it to the 98% too.
    ROP came out as a way for the insurance companies to scam more money from people with the promise of return of the money if they pay for the 30 years.

    You know what?
    If I was you I would be more concerned with the future there. If you guys get
    sold and it looks like that may happen your ratings could go very low. That is
    if the new owner does not disband the train and sell to re-insurers.
    The going price as reported by reuters news is only 7 billion!
    So much for the heart and soul. That is the like kind of price someone puts on a
    car they just want to get rid of.

    It is so nice you are concerned about being sold. But I have a question, why in the world would Citi sell the only sales force that cost them nothing, except commissions. Citi does nto pay for offices, staff, or anything else. The sales force pays for that. And since they made 544 million dollars in net profit last year, that is good. What did you sales force make you? And how much did it cost you? I am so sorry that you are bitter but it is usually those that are losing that do the compalining.



  146. James;

    You have been tooting this Ed Slot Character alot. Have you ever read his post completely.

    He says to invest in company stock. Primerica says to get involved in your companies 401k. This is the easiest way to do it since usually., (Notice I did not say always) the way the company puts their part in . It can be pre or post tax.(This means money is tax deffered or tax free which ever way you set it up.)But we also say some other things.

    He says use the ROTH IRA. Primerica suggests that too. Matter of fact they suggest it more than most financial adviser that sell cash value. Want to know why? It is because then the Client is getting the best. If you sell universal life, variable universal, variable life, etc, you get paid more than if you set up mutual funds for them. Plus the money is the clients, so they never have to borrow, they can withdraw. (Sometimes even tax free.)They do not have up to 7 years of the annual premiums as fees.

    IS he a smart man, YES. Does he say anything different than what other advisers say, not really. Some of his ideas are not for those with $100 a month to spend on a getting to retirement, but then most people who write books are not going after that crowd. Matter of fact, most advisers that are not really cash value salespeople, ever really go after the middle american family. They do not have the money necessary to make it worth their time. Except for Primerica. My Agent came over when I needed help on my 401k. The person in charge of doing the help was too booked up and was then going on vacation. Now how much did he make on that visit? Nothing. but he earned my trust, and my loyalty.

  147. Everything is not about cash value. Why is it the pro Primerica people think everyone else just wish to push Cash Value products. That’s something I learned that wasn’t true when I left. Other companies do sell term.

    I’m glad your PFS agent is doing a good job for you in your eyes, because that’s what really matters to you. If you get a chance go to http://www.fponline and read some of the messages on their board. At a certain point i’m sure you will get some idea of what your PFS agent may not know. Insurance has many uses..

    Just as you say Primerica is the only company who will work with the $100.00 a month person. (Which is untrue)
    Primerica agents offer a limited amount of products to work within their target market. The more complicated the products the more training involved. Term and a side fund is very easy.

  148. Chandler

    A couple of things, briefly. And I think I may be too late on this topic to really ad anything.

    Most financial rep positions will hire anyone with a proven sales backround and some personality. I started with Northwestern Mutual and I didn’t have a clue about finances. I studies on my own for about 2 weeks to pass the Mo Life and Health and they didn’t have any problem hiring me on with absolutely no college experience related to finance. I later studied for and passed the 6 and 63.

    When people talk about making the most money recruiting, its because when someone is hired in, they bring in their friends and family first. Now even if they don’t retain the actual agent they will still retain all or a portion of the business they have brought in and that is the key. There is over a 90% failure rate in the financial rep industry but everyone brings on someone, so the company comes out ahead, even with terrible retention rates.

    I’m not going to go into all of your points, but I do agree with some of your last paragraph, about America falling into debt and that being bad for our future, but I would like to hear how Primerica is the ONLY solution. I’d prefer my finances to be handled by someone who does it full time and with a company that financially outperforms its benchmarks, but thats just me.

  149. James,

    Either you are Naive or think I am.

    Everything is not about cash value. Why is it the pro Primerica people think everyone else just wish to push Cash Value products. That’s something I learned that wasn’t true when I left. Other companies do sell term.

    I agree that other companies sell term insuracne. But their reasoning is not the same. They do it as LOSS Leader. This is a marketing term. It means you sell it as a loss because they know they will make it up on the other products. Example you sell the Garage Door opener with one remote at a what it costs you since most people want multiple remotes. Insurance companies sell it as a loss to get other business. You have a kid so you want a college fund, use insurance for that. Either annuity or cash value. (Had two friends get sold this bill of goods.) Buy a term policy get a letter from corporate saying you might want to change this to permanent insurance. (Before Primerica, every company I bought a term policy from did this, and they are not small companies.)

    I’m glad your PFS agent is doing a good job for you in your eyes, because that’s what really matters to you. If you get a chance go to http://www.fponline and read some of the messages on their board. At a certain point i’m sure you will get some idea of what your PFS agent may not know. Insurance has many uses..

    You can use a Wrench as a hammer, too. Your computer can be used as a paper weight. It does not mean that is the best use of these tools. Insuracne can be used for many usages, the only problem is it only benefits the seller when you do that. The client is usually getting something that may work or may not. Example using an insurance program instead of mutual funds as a way to save for college. Yes it can be done that way, but term insurance and an Educational IRA is a better way. Less fees, and more money for clients. If you invest $50 a month for 18 years you would not have to worry about college for your kids.
    Just as you say Primerica is the only company who will work with the $100.00 a month person. (Which is untrue)

    I am sorry to tell you this Paine Weber penalies an agent that has account with less than $50,000 in it. (I know since my father passed and he had some small accounts for my children, they ahve been begging me to take them else where.) Name an adviser that does not charge a fee for service, that gives a FNA for free, and does yearly updates for free. Ameriprise charges 250 to 6000 dollars for theres and it does nto include half the stuff that the FNA does.

    But you may be true that there are some small companies working with the middle American family, but how many of those are sell cash value to them and not term and investing the difference? 80 to 99%

    Primerica agents offer a limited amount of products to work within their target market. The more complicated the products the more training involved. Term and a side fund is very easy.

    Then I take it you have your 6 and 63 license? I bet not or you would be using it here. IF you did you would be able to talk about how different funds are better and why annuities are good. You can’t.

    But the nice thing about term and mutual fund plan is that it is easy to learn and understand. The Middle American Family does not need complexed advice. They need to learn to invest and protect until they get to their first cash million. I did not say till their house is worth a million since most people never pay off their houses, if they are in the baby boomers or later.

    So why are you saying that Primerica is bad. They give the same advice that your guy ED SLott does, but they are getting it free. They do not have to pay someone 1500 dollars to tell them they need to get out of debt and then I can help them. (Happened to my sister, before I was involved with Primerica.)

    But then you are missing the Point, and you will never get it. Primerica helps people get to retirement. Anyone else selling to the target market is selling cash value which is crap, and the only peopel who say differently are salesmen trying to steal a living.
    Until you learn that yeah it is not the cheapest, but who wants something cheap that is protecting them. Do you want the cheapest glass in your house? How about the cheapest wood for the frame? How about the cheapest metal for the car you drive, and all the safety features be the cheapest around?
    For most people, they are willing to pay for things if they have a value. I pay for service, and quality. Your clients definitely do not care about neither. ANd just like a BMW is not a YUGO, term with similar benefits are not cheaper than Primerica. ( And the biggest benefit is not having someone who does not know me calling me or sending me letters saying I do not know what I need and they know better on a form letter.)

  150. ON Last thing, I finally got to the website you suggested. http://www.fponline, was not complete. It needed to be It is a financial services sales website. It talks about how to sell more products to your clients.

    This is typically what I get from people who see that I have money and want me to use them for financial products. They call me up and say that I need this or that, and use the pitches that they pay for from these sites. They do not know and you definitely did not know, I subscribe to some of the same magazines, so I will not be taken in by them.

    I can only hope that the frenzy that I see with the Mortgage Companies, blows into the Insurance services business. You alone proves that Primerica still has companies out there willing to use any means to deride them. And this competition thinks that the public is naive, but when they get knowledge needed, those that have taken advantage of, or tried to take advantage of them, are hung from their greedy thumbs.