Should you Tithe when you are in debt?

[Jordon]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post, so bear with me.

My wife and I are in a dilemma over this very question.

I was not raised with good financial dicision making, but I was raised with strong Christian values, and of the importance of tithing.

My wife was raised with more of an anti God de-value, and the importance of saving and taking care of your money.

This has created a huge dilemma, Since I agree highly with the Christian values of my parents, but I also agree with her mothers values of money management.

My wifes mother is retired, and has accomplished a lot. This includes, migrating to the U.S. from Germany without knowing english, raising four kids, starting several business that all succeeded, and managing her money above average to become succesful.

My parents have constantly struggled, started several business that all failed, and are in a worse financial position now than ever before.

Both sets of parent are basically the same age.

Christians 0 Athiest 1

"Not looking good for the Christians"

My belief is that if we are not tithing than we are not being blessed by God and are basically going to be managing our debt alone, without His help!

My wife believes that we are wrong to not settle our debts and to give money that technically is not ours!

Now, I think both of these arguments hold a lot of water.

Can anybody please help me out by pointing out scriptures, explaining them, and even giving a little feedback on your thoughts?

I would greately appreciate this.

Thank you all in advance!

Cheers!

[One New Voice]

I wrote a post in the savings forum a week ago about giving testing my faith on a daily basis. I have been doing a lot of thinking about it and I think that my solution may help you in yours.

I came to the conclusion that I was putting to much thought and worry into giving. How much should I give? The bible says 10 percent but what if I can't afford that? And I realized that God doesn't need the money, but people need to give. If you would simply save 2 dollars a day. Stick one dollar in a sock and the other dollar in another sock. At the end of the week, pull out the seven dollars from one sock and put that in the bucket at church. Then, pull out the other seven dollars and put it towards your bills or debt. Show your wife that you are committed to being financially sound but you also have given back to God. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT! Just give the seven dollars. (Seven is a good number.)

What you will find out is that you CAN do it and still pay off debt. The next thing you know, God will bless you and the next month you might be able to double it. Remember, above all else, just put two dollars away a day for the next couple of days until church. Hope this helps.

http://onenewvoice.blogspot.com

[DerrikCFP]

Jordan,

That is a tough situation, but not uncommon to a lot of families.

My suggestion follows the track of the late Larry Burkett. He counseled in these situations to sit down with your spouse and make the following agreement. "I would like to give x each month to y. At the end of the year, if we are worse off financially, I will agree to stop giving. If we are better off financially, I would like to continue to do this (or increase our giving to z)."

If your spouse flatly rejects this, then you can drop it...God doesn't need the money...he knows your heart. If she agrees, then test God (Malachi 3) and see if he won't open the gates of heaven and pour out a blessing that you cannot contain. He wants to show himself strong to her.

Derrik Hubbard, CFP
www.thestewardshipsolution.com

[4jacks]

Hey Jordon,

Welcome to the boards.

First is your Wife a Christian?

If she is, then it's pretty easy to get her on board with tithing. Just read Malachi Chapter 3 in the Bible. (Shall a man rob God?) You can also read the story of the women who gave two pennies, Jesus saw her and commended her. That lady didn't even have food to eat, Jesus did not tell her "Oh, you have no money, you need this more than the church"

My wife grew up kinda agnostic/christian, we had a fight about whether to tithe or not. I went over Malachi 3 with her and I put my foot down (the only time in ten years of marriage that I've ever 'put my foot' anywhere other than my own mouth) I told her I was tithing.

In Malachi 3, God says to test him in the tithe, and I guess we did, becuase Heather was very reluctant, she said fine, but was not happy at all. It was about a week later when God really did something amazing with $3. It's a long story I won't type it out, but Heather was very convinced that God does provided and she has happily tithed ever since.

Another question for you though. You really talk alot about both sets of parents. Not sure if you are just giving us background or if maybe there is an unhealthy attachment there. Neither of your parents should really be up in your tithing business. We are defined by our past, but we don't have to be prisioners of our past.

[KrozFan]

Another question for you though. You really talk alot about both sets of parents. Not sure if you are just giving us background or if maybe there is an unhealthy attachment there. Neither of your parents should really be up in your tithing business. We are defined by our past, but we don't have to be prisioners of our past.

This was my first thought. Are you guys young? Are you recently married? What about doing a tithe after you're out of debt, not just while you're in debt?

Is your wife truly an athiest or were you just using that as an expression. Would she agree to some happy medium where you give to charities but not the church. Is her problem with "the church" rather than giving? Not to be a downer but if you have strong Christian values, which would include tithing, and she's an athest you'll always have problems.

[Jordon]

Sorry for any confusion, My wife is Christian. Her mother is Atheist. Our parents have no idea or say in our financial situation. This is a private issue.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

We have been married almost 7 years. We did tithe in the beginning and we put ourselves in debt. We got out of debt and put ourselves in debt again. We stopped tithing somewhere in the middle of that, and we are still in debt. We are in debt because we wanted to be. Haha, basically thats the real truth right!

Here is the main concern. We have received a decent tax return, and before any money is allocated to anything. We want to come to an agreement on how much to tithe if any at all, pay debt, save.

I am mainly looking for Scriptures and explanation of scripture to help us understand what the right way is. It is good to hear examples of how it has worked in your lives too.

I really appreciate everyones help.

I will continue to look for answers and check scriptures. When its all said and done I will let you guys know what direction we decided to go.

thank you!

P.S. I dntt want to be cursed with the Curse

-Jordon

[4jacks]

We are in debt because we wanted to be. Haha, basically thats the real truth right!

Yeah man, that really rings a bell with me. I've been there.

Here is the main concern. We have received a decent tax return, and before any money is allocated to anything. We want to come to an agreement on how much to tithe if any at all, pay debt, save.

Well, here are my thoughts. First you guys need to agree that you are going to tithe. (Malachi 3) How much to tithe is very simple. The word Tithe litterally translates into "A Tenth". A Tenth is mathematically 10%. The tithe really started in Genesis 14:20.

Anyhow. The question is about your tax return. Which it is important to note that your tax return, is a Return. You gave money to the IRS, they are now giving it back! You have to get into a deeper study, but most scholars who agree about tithing, agree that it is based off your profits. A tax return is not profit.

I do not tithe from the money I get back in my tax return. I've already tithed on that money when they got it.

If you tithe on your NET income, rather than your GROSS, then you may want to tithe on tax return, since you did not tithe on that money before the IRS got it.

If you haven't been tithing lately, and you want to tithe on the tax return, then by all means, do so. Afterall the Tithe is about honoring God, even though we can get all legalistic when talking about it.

I am mainly looking for Scriptures and explanation of scripture to help us understand what the right way is. It is good to hear examples of how it has worked in your lives too.

Malachi 3 is really the best scripture on Tithing (In my opinion)

[KrozFan]

Sorry for any confusion, My wife is Christian. Her mother is Atheist. Our parents have no idea or say in our financial situation. This is a private issue.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

Ok, sorry if I misread your first post.

My wife and I tithe and it's great. We do it with an open heart becasue we want to give and that's the key. I have been reading sermon notes from a series on Malachi and the most recent sermon was on giving. Malachi 3:10 says "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the Lord Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it." Seems like a powerful one to me, and I've found it to be true.

Have you made a budget. If you haven't I would strongly suggest that. If you show your wife that you're interested in making a plan and that you're being serious about money and that you won't be throwing it away she may be more open to the idea of tithing.

[Jordon]

Thanks you Kroz and Jacks. I will put Malachi on my list of scriptures I've been finding on this matter.

I just finished reading a great book that has used the same tenth (tithe) principal to give to a charity even when getting out of debt. The author admits to not believing in religion and that it pains him to quote scripture as to not sound religious, but he admits it works. The book is titled "You're Broke Because You Want to Be" by Larry Winget. Great book!

I am having my wife read it now and when she is done we will sit down and go over the scriptures and hopefully come to an agreement.

Thank you all for your help. I will keep you posted!

Cheers

[Jordon]

Just wanted to update everyone.

My wife and I agreed that it is equally important to tithe along with changing our spending habits to save, and to pay off our debt.

Here are our resources that helped us find our way;

"You're Broke Because You Want to Be" by Larry Winget.
This is a great book to read for anyone who is looking to get out of debt, and in control of their finances. It's "in your face" common sense and has some good tools to help you work with. The author is not Christian, but uses God's formula on how we ought to handle our money. He even quotes scripture and Oral Roberts. Not bad for a non believer!

Malachi 3:8-10; "Will a man rob God? yet you have robbed Me! but you say, In what way have we robbed you? In tithes and offerings. 9 You are Cursed with a curse. For you have robbed Me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.
When you are trying every possible way to cut spending, pay your debt, and save money. It's easy to see that giving money does not calculate as a smart decision. but when you read Malachi 3:10 you realize that "every possible way" includes receiving Gods blessing!

quotes found in Larry Winget's book;
these are not exact, but they say something like this;
"If you do not have faith that when you give money, it will come back to you; then you do not believe money is going to come, so you are believing in being broke."

"If you hold on to your money with a tight fist, then there is now room for your fist to grab on to more money" I think this is the very essence of understanding why God would say, "you are cursed with a curse!"

I want to thank everyone that has contributed to helping us find the answers to our financial freedom.

Most importantly; "Lord God, You are Almighty God, we lift up You're name above all names, thank You for helping us understand Your word. Bless all who have helped Your word minister to us. Thank you Holy Spirit for ministering to our hearts and giving us the understanding of Your word. We give You all the Glory and Honor, In Jesus' name. Amen.

God Bless you all,

Jordon

[4jacks]

Very Cool Jordan, very happy for you guys.

[moyosore01]

Hey Jordon, i'm glad you were able to get some answers here...hope you don't mind me adding a few things. Anyway here goes. One of the things to always remember as a NT saint is the fact that we are living in a dispensation of grace and not works (Eph.2:8-9). In essence our justification in the eyes of God is not based on what we do or don't do, but by faith (Rom.3:28). In faith we are measured based on our love and honor for God and His Word (Matt.22:36-40, Rom.13:10). OBVIOUSLY YOU LOVE GOD, and that's a very good start!

Galatians 3:13 reveals "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings (Eph.1:3), however in receiving the said blessings of Abraham we ought to walk in the steps of faith taken by Abraham. Abraham tithed in faith, and out of love for God and confidence in his covenant with God. It was a tithe to honor God.

God loves you, and it's His desire to bless you abundantly, and the tithe should be given from a heart of love towards God, demonstrating complete trust in Him (See Prov. 3:5-9), and not from a place of fear. It's not God's desire to put a curse on you (which really God doesn't curse people, to not tithe can be seen as dishonor and lack of confidence in God). I want you to meditate on that, and build your confidence based on the fact that God loves you, it's His desire to bless you, and when you honor Him, He will honor you in return!

Here are a few Scriptures that you can meditate on that will help build your faith as you continue to love God, and attack the fear and the disapointment by holding fast to theseeut.26:12-15, Prov.3:9-10, 1Sam.2:30, Heb.7:5-9, 3John 2, Ps.84:11, Lev.26:3-13, Ps.112

Hope this blesses everyone!

[Jonathan K]

Hey Jordon, I would also like to add a few things even though reading the thread I realize this has already been dealt with.

Much of my thinking on money has been affected by this article Bob wrote listing what the Bible has to say about money. I recommend reading it! And if it seems a bit long to digest all at once Bob has conveniently divided the passages by topic.

Trust what God says in His Word. The Bible says:

For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. I know every bird of the mountains, and everything that moves in the field is Mine. If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is Mine, and all it contains. - Psalm 50:10-12

Everything belongs to God. From cattle to mountains to money. All of it.

Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce; so your barns will be filled with plenty and your vats will overflow with new wine. - Proverbs 3:9-10

This is a great promise.

Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s; it is holy to the Lord. - Leviticus 27:30

You see the tithe is for the Lord. It is a sign of obedience. We are told to be cheerful givers:

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2 Corithians 9:7

The Greek word cheerful actually could be translated “hilariously” according to some experts. This same word is where we get the word in English “hilarious.” God wants us to be joyfully or hilariously (with such enthusiasm that we can’t contain ourselves) expressing our thankfulness to Him.

Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings. “You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you! Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the LORD of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows?” - Malachi 3:8-10

Another great observation and promise can be seen here. On a side note is this perhaps why the U.S. is in the state of affairs we found ourselves in? I have heard that in many cases 80% of the church's tithes come from 20% or less of it's membership.

In any case God first commands us to give to Himself joyfully. Then God promises to pour out blessings on those who tithe and give offerings to the Lord.

And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus. - Philippians 4:19

This is a great promise that God will provide. Tithing is a matter of obedience and trust.

Finally, the Bible says:

In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. - 1 Corithians 9:14

The tithe is to go to the local church to support the local minister God has appointed to lead His flock in that particular location. I used to have a problem with this concept until I found this passage. Understand too that I m not an ordained minister and am in fact just another Christ follower.

It is like one beggar telling other beggars where to find the delicious and free food. Test the Lord for He is good. Tithe during your debt elimination process and see how much richer your life will be!

Hope this helps.

[cccfree]

Everybody in their adult life, including the ultra-wealthy, has gotten in trouble with debt (i.e., Donald Trump's been bankrupt x2), especially in this current economic climate it just takes being unemployed for a couple months in order for an individual to get in trouble with their monthly obligations.

If you are in debt and you have never set up a monthly budget that is the first thing you should do if you find out that you're in the red at the end of every month because of credit card debts and payments going to other debts than you should call Christian, non profit credit counseling organization to help you out, you can get in a debt management plan and lower your monthly nut by 20%-50%.

Secondly being in debt is a horrible way to live and you should really focus on getting your house in order before you start worrying about how much you're tithing. Debts are like burdens that weigh your entire family and even your children will be able to feel your stress, so ironing out your own personal finances is an important part of helping you family out, and you should really put your family first.

That's just my opinion.

[Gary Barzel]

I want to echo some of the responses here in that tithing is important, what's not so important at least when you're in debt is the amount that you're tithing. God wants us to give, and giving means giving freely with an open heart. If you are struggling financially and you feel a burden in giving, start off by giving a little bit, the act alone will feel good when you take into account that others are living beneath you in terms of poverty, and you are blessed to being able to give even a small amount. Every little bit helps, and the fact that you are giving something means you are doing an act of kindness, which in return will bring blessings upon you.